View Full Version : What would you like to see before/when using SAC?
Deathspike
10-05-2010, 19:21
Hello,
As we all know Simple Anti-Cheat isn't quite popular and I would like to do something to change this. Competition play might come more into focus as we go along with the new version, and perhaps it is time that the system becomes more accepted as a decent cheat prevention system. Now, the following reasons to avoid it at any cost are the ones of the top of my head..
1. File(s) get flagged as Malware/Trojan and are ignored because of this.
2. It doesn't run on a Mac (and I'm sorry, I can't change this fact).
3. I'm Deathspike and you hate me. Or just the idea of an Anti-Cheat.
Perhaps I've missed something completely obvious? I would appreciate anyone who has suggestions for improvement or simply explaining why they oppose having the system run. Please do not turn this into another flame thread, but bring constructive critisim as to why you dislike SAC or what you would do to improve it and its image.
Thank you.
Is there a different packing\modification of the current packing you can use that doesn't set everything off that would still be as secure?
Deathspike
10-05-2010, 19:31
Perhaps, I'm looking into that as an option for those flaggings.
4. insufficient manual and changelog
5. blocking ingame features without any note (and not very efficient anyways)
(6. random kicks)
That are just my problems with it btw, i do not care about 1-3.
Which cvars need to be unblocked in your opinion? The shadows?
see 4. What I mean is if he blocking something he should write it down somewhere, preferably in the readme. Transparency is everything and maybe prevents distrust in the community. And yeah ingame features and options like the shadows should not be regulated by one guy, it is the job of the whole dev team imho.
There was a big list of 'em, bit it seems to have hidden itself...
Truthfully, the only reason I don't use it is because I don't understand how it's supposed to operate, and the program itself is a little confusing to use. That, and because there aren't any servers that run it.
I think the one way to getting SAC used more often would be to incorporate an installer/updater with the main MBII package.
People would just have to set the program to "safe" on their antivirus, and then open it after MBII's been installed. Then maybe tie an updater in with an MBII shortcut (like MBII launcher) so you don't have an auto update that has no trigger, and doesn't have to be "manually" activated.
Oh, and it might be an idea to change something in the server browser so it shows if a server has SAC enabled or not.
I didn't have problems with it when it was first released, but a few months ago my Avast scanner started detecting it as a Trojan (which probably started happening after some update from Avast's developers).
I've always ignored the occasional virus alerts that pop up when I scroll through the GameData folder and it hasn't affected my gaming because SAC isn't used on the servers I usually play on. However, I don't think my game would work on a server that uses SAC as Avast would probably prevent it from starting.
I'd say that the biggest problem people have with SAC is its detection as a virus. It scares people off and might prevent the game from working, which would probably be my case. And most people (me included) aren't willing to change their virus protection software only to get SAC working.
I think the one way to getting SAC used more often would be to incorporate an installer/updater with the main MBII package.
I agree.
Oh, and it might be an idea to change something in the server browser so it shows if a server has SAC enabled or not.
Already implanted, with/out SAC installed. It's a shield icon that shows up next to the server names in the browser.
StarWarsGeek
10-05-2010, 21:54
I think the one way to getting SAC used more often would be to incorporate an installer/updater with the main MBII package.
I'd really like to see this happen. The only real problem with this is Mac users. Even if it doesn't actually prevent cheats, couldn't we just have a "Mac Version" that lets Mac users into SAC servers? Not many MBII players use Mac.
I'd really like to see this happen. The only real problem with this is Mac users. Even if it doesn't actually prevent cheats, couldn't we just have a "Mac Version" that lets Mac users into SAC servers? Not many MBII players use Mac.
Maybe include some sort of server-side exception/option that server admins can set, so it either allows all mac users or tries to filter them via SAC?
I'd really like to see this happen. The only real problem with this is Mac users. Even if it doesn't actually prevent cheats, couldn't we just have a "Mac Version" that lets Mac users into SAC servers? Not many MBII players use Mac.
That sounds like a good idea. I don't think there are any mac compatible JKA hacks anyway XD
Threepwood
10-05-2010, 22:46
I'd like to see the mass using it. I had no problems, after using the trace tool thing.
TheLOLipop
10-05-2010, 23:00
Needs to be enforced. Also, some virus scan/analysis proving that it's completely safe.
Needs to be enforced. Also, some virus scan/analysis proving that it's completely safe.
Impossible. Antivirus can never prove anything safe nor unsafe.
Deathspike
11-05-2010, 00:18
Create an application that will handle installation and updating that shows you what is being checked, updated and provide a list of recent news articles. These would contain the patch information, such as a change log and any additional information about the patch. This installer should go into the MBII package, but without additional files so the user can decide whether or not to run it. The first-time run will display a brief introduction, explaining what SAC is and why they might need it.
Updates will have to go through the application unless the user specifically sets an option in it that it is allowed to update while playing. By default, the feature will be disabled and will display a notification ingame when your client is outdated. Please note this will only occur after you have entered a server, so it is a bit of a roundabout way when automatic updates are disabled. Perhaps there should be a warning about the update to the user, which might satisfy some users?
The SAC-server component will get two configuration settings. One will control whether or not SAC is actually turned on, allowing you to turn it off without removing the binary. Perhaps you just love the engine fixes it provides. The other setting will be a strict setting, whether or not to allow Mac-users. If this isn't viable (a lot of research must go here), we'll have to start thinking about a, hopefully simple, method to convert the Mac-game to Windows and boot it through Wine.
The working component, DSAC.dll, should not trigger Anti-Virus software. How I'm going to accomplish this remains a mystery, but perhaps I'll work something out. I think this covers most of the issues raised here, but people, keep the feedback coming (both on this and things you don't agree with, miss, or don't like).
Create an application that will handle installation and updating that shows you what is being checked, updated and provide a list of recent news articles.
You mean like an RSS feed? :)
Deathspike
11-05-2010, 08:38
Yep. 12345
JohnMatrix
11-05-2010, 11:11
I think the main problem for the masses is the need to go here and download and bother with installing SAC. That and the virus flags. People are lazy to do research on installing it and learning about the virus warnings.
It should definitely be downloaded and installed together with the game.
Deathspike
11-05-2010, 16:46
Come on people, more input! There are a lot of you lurking around here, even if it has been said, please do confirm your thoughts on the subject. Thanks ;>
The Underdog
11-05-2010, 23:05
I'd like to see less overskilled people along those disruptors/projectile rifles.
Don't wanna hear that; I'll be lagging because of SAC...
It would have been refreshing again and again, counting on that it also could be hacked.
It may be part of the mod, so don't need to be on servers, it will have got everyone who's downloaded MB2, to be sure.
Obviously Not an Alias
12-05-2010, 02:53
I'd like to know the downsides of having SAC on a server, other than not having as many hackers. People say that it has many unwanted results but I don't know if they're just being lazy and/or ignorant ._.
If it doesn't have any problems other than *gets rid of hackers*, there would be no reason for optionality.
GoodOlBen
12-05-2010, 07:03
I didn't have problems with it when it was first released, but a few months ago my Avast scanner started detecting it as a Trojan (which probably started happening after some update from Avast's developers).
I've always ignored the occasional virus alerts that pop up when I scroll through the GameData folder and it hasn't affected my gaming because SAC isn't used on the servers I usually play on. However, I don't think my game would work on a server that uses SAC as Avast would probably prevent it from starting.
I'd say that the biggest problem people have with SAC is its detection as a virus. It scares people off and might prevent the game from working, which would probably be my case. And most people (me included) aren't willing to change their virus protection software only to get SAC working.
My thoughts essentially.
Yeah, when my AV deletes the SAC dlls the minute it notices them, it gets kind of annoying. Breaks svn too. :|
Deathspike
13-05-2010, 00:14
If it doesn't have any problems other than *gets rid of hackers*, there would be no reason for optionality.
The largest issue at this point is that it's triggering some virus scanners and the fact that it simply does not work on Mac (and yes, apparently there are people whom actually use a mac for games). Those are the downsides (at this point).
Theres actually quite a few Mac MB2 players :p
Considering Jedi Academy is one of the few good games that work on a Mac, it's not really surprising.
In any case, my biggest gripe is the inconvinience caused by the fact that the new version of F-Secure insists it's a trojan. It's not an issue for me to put it up as an exception, but I'd imagine many people will simply think "whatever, screw it" and leave it at that.
If it's included with the Mb install and therefore synergous with MBII, I'd use it. It flags as a virus ? Who cares, I've aleady been told it isn't. If I can do absolutely nothing and have SAC work and update and have no cheaters when I'm MBIIing, I'll be 100% satisfied.
Seriously guys, how can you possibly think it's a virus when it's been stated 57429569 times that it isn't ?
However, having it NOT flag as a virus would be a nice little bonus as well.
IMHO people should not have a choice to run SAC. The devs are preventng their game from becoming a crazy spamfest of cheats and rages, and that will, eventually, benfit everyone.
The issue is is that not all AV make it easy to unflag and replace things it thinks are bad.
The main reason why ppl dont use it is coz they are too lazy to download it. You should make it a must-have, not allowing servers without it. Also would be good if it was impletended in the mb2.
JohnMatrix
21-05-2010, 21:43
If it was forced download, you could still allow servers to turn it off it their players experience problems, that would solve the laziness issue without harassing players who get bugged.
What about making it compatible with startaffinity?
At the moment it will give you an error and you won't be able to join SAC servers.
Needed to make a separate batch and change the affinity manually.
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