View Full Version : Your so called "Simple Anti-Cheat" Infected my Computer...
Norton Internet Security 2009
Vista Home Premium, SP2
Just tried to install your so-called "Anti-Cheat", the thing infect 3 trojans onto my Computer, those 3 are currently being removed from my computer. Now what I would like to ask, is why there were Trojans in the .zip file in the first place?! -.-'
GoodOlBen
16-10-2009, 00:52
They are just mistaken for Trojans, I believe. A few antiviruses complain about them. Some don't however.
I repeat, there is no trojan. It is a false positive.
I repeat, there is no trojan. It is a false positive.
Thats more like a load of bull****, why would anyone try to download a "So called Anti-Cheat" file that is created from a former hacker to mb2? Oh right...not many people are aware of such acts that were commited in the past by this certain individual, maybe the dev's can clear this up hmmm?
My advice to you MSC and anyone else dumb enough to trust this person's Anti-cheat file is dont be fooled, and dont bother downloading it, I'm sure it'll bring repercussions in the future.
Threepwood
16-10-2009, 20:01
Thats more like a load of bull****, why would anyone try to download a "So called Anti-Cheat" file that is created from a former hacker to mb2? Oh right...not many people are aware of such acts that were commited in the past by this certain individual, maybe the dev's can clear this up hmmm?
My advice to you MSC and anyone else dumb enough to trust this person's Anti-cheat file is dont be fooled, and dont bother downloading it, I'm sure it'll bring repercussions in the future.
Piss off
F0rt1_S3v3N
16-10-2009, 20:03
It's not a f..........ing virus, understand ? All bugs will be fixed soon !.........i hope....
SPaMSandwich!!
16-10-2009, 20:09
will everyone with less than 100 posts please stfu
F0rt1_S3v3N
16-10-2009, 20:47
No they just won't stfu but i think you should !
Torrentazos
16-10-2009, 21:06
If you're so scared about it being a trojan, then use fuc'king sandboxie. There, now shut the Fuc.k up crying and help get it fixed, or don't use it at all and play on non-sac servers.
Particle Man
16-10-2009, 21:51
This entire thread is bullshi.t
Nichilus
16-10-2009, 21:58
This entire thread is bullshi.t
Khyron, your a genius.
Thats more like a load of bull****, why would anyone try to download a "So called Anti-Cheat" file that is created from a former hacker to mb2? Oh right...not many people are aware of such acts that were commited in the past by this certain individual, maybe the dev's can clear this up hmmm?
My advice to you MSC and anyone else dumb enough to trust this person's Anti-cheat file is dont be fooled, and dont bother downloading it, I'm sure it'll bring repercussions in the future.
Stfu. Plzkthx
On a Lighter Note I Like Khyron's post as well.
Airplane!
17-10-2009, 00:12
I never knew people could be this stupid.
Thats more like a load of bull****, why would anyone try to download a "So called Anti-Cheat" file that is created from a former hacker to mb2? Oh right...not many people are aware of such acts that were commited in the past by this certain individual, maybe the dev's can clear this up hmmm?
My advice to you MSC and anyone else dumb enough to trust this person's Anti-cheat file is dont be fooled, and dont bother downloading it, I'm sure it'll bring repercussions in the future.
You know his work was in older builds of MBII, right?
=Someone=
17-10-2009, 00:44
However obscure or creative your reasons not to trust Deathspike are, you can always use Sandboxie (http://www.moviebattles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29202) to control what SAC can do on your system.
I must note, if you don't trust the dev's judgement of SAC, why do you trust them to run their code (MBII) at all?
Azuvector
17-10-2009, 00:49
I kind of wanted to stay out of this, but this needs correcting:
I must note, if you don't trust the dev's judgement of SAC, why do you trust them to run their code (MBII) at all?
That's part of the issue, Subaru. You weren't privy to the internal discussion where this was pointed out, but the way SAC is setup, anyone trusting it is trusting Deathspike specifically. Not anyone else on the MBII team.
Me? I don't trust it or him. (Yet I used to, 'til I discovered access to SAC was being withheld from everyone on the MBII team, for bizarre nonsensical reasons. And Deathspike's also accused me of hacking as a result of this. Which is hilarious to no end.) Then again, I don't play MBII anymore.
Make your own judgement call. The MBII team as a whole has zero hand in the making of, or access to, anything internal of SAC. They're in the exact same position the players are in.
If you want to trust something because someone else(Who might be being lied to.) says it's trustworthy, go ahead. In the end, you've gotta make the decision yourself.
cloudstrife
17-10-2009, 01:36
remember when you could be vac banned for using cheating death on a not-cheating death server?
yeah, its just getting mistaken as a trojan because it's probably injecting stuff in the exe to verify. Since the process probably is the same a trojan does (except this one doesnt mean to harm your computer) the paranoid-antivirus get alert mode.
Did I get it right¿?
=Someone=
17-10-2009, 01:48
Did I get it right¿?
The point Azu tried to make is that there is no answer to that but the one Deathspike choses to give you. Noone but him has access to know truthfully.
What do we know about Deathspike really?
He *used* to create wallhacks for mb.
Now he's in charge of creating the anti-cheat system. Irony.
But then, if we're to believe Azu, he's the only one in control of the system.
Ominous.
And then...theres the whole white hat thing. Possible Ku Klux Klan member...wizard...old pervert in dress...
And his name...:x
Oh god, we got a mega maniacal sex fiend racist whose going to hack us apart with his spikes...:(
We are so screwed. Save what porn you can.
=Someone=
17-10-2009, 01:59
But then, if we're to believe Azu, he's the only one in control of the system.
Well, no need to be a believer for that one. That's a fact. However, if you go down the path of checking out every nook and cranny of the closets and basements of every coder who's work you have on your pc, you'd probably wind up being suspicious about even booting your machine up.
Fact is, Deathspike's past anti-cheat codes were good and honest attempts to get rid of lamers in MB2. I guess you can always assume he got possessed by a demon since then, but ultimately it's up to you to decide how likely that would be.
And he's demon possessed too...I can totally believe you made dotf on purpose now:p
But in all seriousness, while I appreciate the attempt to make the playing field fair again, I hate any drops in performance that can be attributed it.
I still haven't forgiven vortex for increasing my load time by 5 mins on my old pc.:mad::mad::mad:
=Someone=
17-10-2009, 02:11
But in all seriousness, while I appreciate the attempt to make the playing field fair again, I hate any drops in performance that can be attributed it.
I still haven't forgiven vortex for increasing my load time by 5 mins on my old pc.:mad::mad::mad:
Yea, I guess that's one of the main ways in which MB2 fails. In a lot of aspects, we made the bad sides of the engine appear even worse. Especially when working on something where I need to re-start MB over and over again, I loathe the loading times easily as much.
It is actually pretty common practice for software companies to hire the hackers that penetrate their systems. ;)
TockRock
17-10-2009, 03:05
It is actually pretty common practice for software companies to hire the hackers that penetrate their systems. ;)
Ever watch the movie "Catch me if you can"? Not exactly hacking, but same idea. Good movie ^.^
JohnMatrix
17-10-2009, 03:24
Who gives a ****, I got like 10 viruses running I bet. Anyone wants me to send him some files?
cloudstrife
17-10-2009, 03:29
The point Azu tried to make is that there is no answer to that but the one Deathspike choses to give you. Noone but him has access to know truthfully.
I meant my answer to be directed at OP. I think Azu makes a valid point, but if deathspike was found to be placing malicious code, well, ****storm would begin.
My advice is to stop stressing the man, as the "**** them all" status may reach when he's sick of everyone calling him a bad man that "maed da hax"... and thats when he may give us some nice oogyboogy. xD
=Someone=
17-10-2009, 03:46
I meant my answer to be directed at OP. I think Azu makes a valid point, but if deathspike was found to be placing malicious code, well, ****storm would begin.
Yea. Got to admit I picked your quote 'cause your question seemed fit to adress all the half-knowledge going on in this thread.
Seemed to me people forgot that having an explanation is not the same as knowing something. Just because false positives exist in the history of anti-virus programs, it's not acceptable to start being hostile ("Piss off", "This entire thread is bullshi.t", ...) only based on the assumption that it's the case here as well.
For most people, it really is solely up to trusting Deathspike or their AV, so I don't see how anyone who isn't willing to make that leap of faith towards a coder they've never met deserves the reactions this thread has brought up.
Got to agree that bugging/doubting Deathspike likely won't help either tho.
You weren't privy to the internal discussion where this was pointed out, but the way SAC is setup, anyone trusting it is trusting Deathspike specifically. Not anyone else on the MBII team.
That was hardly an internal discussion, unless by internal you mean "my internals are spilling out all over the ground"
JohnMatrix
17-10-2009, 03:58
I'm sure most of us download ****loads of programs we have no idea about, they could have been secretly created by some hackers and they can suck informations from your PC, actually they do that in most cases.
Wildebeest
17-10-2009, 04:00
That was hardly an internal discussion, unless by internal you mean "my internals are spilling out all over the ground"
There was far more to the discussion than what happened in public, but yes, that was the general gist.
In any case, I think both sides agree that SAC is better off as an independent project.
"...And this be our motto: 'In Deathspike is our trust'."
"Trust, but verify"
Wildebeest
17-10-2009, 04:05
I'm sure most of us download ****loads of programs we have no idea about, they could have been secretly created by some hackers and they can suck informations from your PC, actually they do that in most cases.
Nah, what you really need to worry about are Facebook apps. Those quizzes steal all your info.
If you don't trust Deathspike don't use SAC or run Sandboxie. If you do, then proceed as normal. There's no need to get all fussy about this, guys.
JohnMatrix
17-10-2009, 04:07
Nah, what you really need to worry about are Facebook apps. Those quizzes steal all your info.
If you don't trust Deathspike don't use SAC or run Sandboxie. If you do, then proceed as normal. There's no need to get all fussy about this, guys.
If you're using Facebook, you deserve a real life virus instead of some spy-ware.
Facebook is okay, just set your privacy options.
I used to, 'til I discovered access to SAC was being withheld from everyone on the MBII team, for bizarre nonsensical reasons. And Deathspike's also accused me of hacking as a result of this
The same situation really. I find it hard to give my to trust people who do not trust in kind, and for that I was slandered.
Truth is, everyone (including Vortex) knew threads like this were inevitable, and rather than secure our confidence to back the system we've been forced out of the loop on SAC, so the best any mb2 team member can give you is a big old *shrug*.
=Someone=
17-10-2009, 04:28
To be fair, our co-leaders also have the option to *shuffle their feet*. :p
I kind of wanted to stay out of this, but this needs correcting:
That's part of the issue, Subaru. You weren't privy to the internal discussion where this was pointed out, but the way SAC is setup, anyone trusting it is trusting Deathspike specifically. Not anyone else on the MBII team.
Me? I don't trust it or him. (Yet I used to, 'til I discovered access to SAC was being withheld from everyone on the MBII team, for bizarre nonsensical reasons. And Deathspike's also accused me of hacking as a result of this. Which is hilarious to no end.) Then again, I don't play MBII anymore.
Make your own judgement call. The MBII team as a whole has zero hand in the making of, or access to, anything internal of SAC. They're in the exact same position the players are in.
If you want to trust something because someone else(Who might be being lied to.) says it's trustworthy, go ahead. In the end, you've gotta make the decision yourself.
/signed, anyone else still ponder what I had to say originally? oh the irony...
Wildebeest
17-10-2009, 05:22
/signed, anyone else still ponder what I had to say originally? oh the irony...
You were just being an inflammatory troll. There's a difference between not using something yourself and flaming people for using it.
You were just being an inflammatory troll. There's a difference between not using something yourself and flaming people for using it.
Wildebeest, I agree...but my objective was not to flame, but rather bring light and strong attention to what people are getting themselves into. If you have people within your own development team that are blatantly saying they do not trust him, and yet mb2 "sponsors, or host" this certain individuals file, what am I suppose to think? That it's ok to trust this file, regardless of people saying its a "false positive" You can't blame me for just shedding light on this program, and I hope people will think twice and especially anyone who plans to put this up on their server.
=Someone=
17-10-2009, 05:57
If you have people within your own development team that are blatantly saying they do not trust him, and yet mb2 "sponsors, or host" this certain individuals file, what am I suppose to think?
What you're actually supposed to see is simply the results of an unfair trade for a higher purpose:
Deathspike asked the team to trust him with the solution of a problem, while at the same time telling the team that, to solve the problem, they can't know how the solution works. Taught by experience, some devs insisted that trust is a mutual agreement and one-sided trust isn't acceptable, as that would put other stuff at risk as well, like the reputation of the mod (should anything go wrong). Since there was a chance that this could work, maybe due to Deathspike's past successes, the devs however concluded that they'll give him the chance by passing the decision on to each player to decide for himself and that's where your part of the story actually begins...
I trust the sac. It has my endorsement. Call me a fool!
Edit to your edit! Forgot an a.
Both sides of the coin are trolling in this thread. Cut it out.
You either trust the SAC or you don't, and while I understand people feel the need to defend their position, it's not an excuse to badmouth each other personally.
to reiterate:
the best any mb2 team member can give you is a big old *shrug*.
No mb2 team member has any more insight into the workings of SAC than you do.
Here's 1 theory. Maybe a bit controversial.
Maybe it is a trojan.:p A modified one.:eek:
Imagine if you will, if trojans were spiders creeping and crawling through your pc while weaving their evil web catching tasty flies(files), file flies. Now imagine if you will, a spider that creeps, that crawls and weaves its web to catch a specific sort of fly, wallhacks, aimbots, etc., It's not maliciously installing or modifiying key files to take control of your pc, it's just using its insidiousness and pervasity to create a...security blanket.
Please note, I know very little about coding.:p And this is just 1 crazy theory.
In the end, it's all a question of trust. Do I think that after all these years here Vortex is suddenly going to turn into an evil bastard who wants to install some spyware that's going to be detrimental to my pc? Especially with everyone watching like a hawk? No, I really don't.
If your paranoid and afraid, you have options to work around it. Don't use it, use sandbox, whatever.
Zerobot1
17-10-2009, 07:11
Don't worry, I have enough tin foil hats for everyone.
Yeah, I was a bit nervous to put it onto my system, ESET didn't like it at all. But then again ESET doesn't like Keygens either, are they the same sort of thing?
Get me a tinfoil hat. :S
Tinfoil hats only work against alien mind control. And even then, they give you no protection against anal probing.:eek:
That's what metal underwear is for. :p
SPaMSandwich!!
17-10-2009, 08:20
That's what metal underwear is for. :p
get them for everyone but Frost, he likes those.....
...My IQ dropped about 30 points by entering this thread =\
1. Use sandboxie so you know SAC isn't 'messing with your files'
2. Deathspike has already explained the whole 'making hacks then making anticheat' so called irony
3. RTFM.
4. ???
5. No, not profit - Just leave your silly accusations out the door thanks n_n
After all, how can you know how to defeat something you know nothing about?
selman_akinci
17-10-2009, 10:36
will everyone with less than 100 posts please stfu
I lold
Edit: checking my post count :p
BlackBolt
17-10-2009, 19:56
This may be a bad example, but anyone who has ever downloaded a 'crack' or a keygen for a program may have experienced some trouble with AV's, but that doesn't mean to say that the keygen or crack is actually a virus. It was to be expected though, just like when you look at the comments for a keygen download page, there's always one or two idiots proclaiming that it is indeed a virus. Unless everyone starts saying that SAC is a trojan, I wouldn't believe it. But then again, it's up to you guys if you want to download SAC or not, just don't come here and b1tch when your favourite server(s) start using SAC, and you can't get in.
Is this thread getting anyone anywhere?
Are ANY of these threads getting anyone anywhere?
Whether you like SAC or not, the fact is it's here to stay. All these needless SAC haters trolling SAC likers trolling SAC haters threads are getting ridiculous.
I would propose all these topics and other ones that pop up like it just get locked up or deleted instead of distracting from problem solving.
Either that, or we rename this forum to "Official Troll Hangout"
Guys? While I dont like some comments either (The "trolling" etc) I think that some people are just expressing their fear for something with it. In that case, SAC. I´d like to bring this to an end or at least be somewhat helpful with it so lets just sum it up:
- SAC got released and downloaded by many.
- Some (SOME!) people got warnings about trojans. Not everyone got a warning. I for example havent detected a trojan in the whole SAC folder while scanning it with AVG Free.
- Alot of people have trouble entering and staying on a server running SAC. Hm, keep in mind that MB2 is a mod. These guys dont have beta resources like Blizzard or Infinity Ward. There were about 30 people testing SAC. At least I was prepared for a "buggy" time when it got released.
- Deathspike suggested stuff like disabling your Firewalls and Anti-Virus programs... Yes, I know what you think. However, this is what was causing alot of errors by not letting you actually move all needed files because your protection simply was hiding everything to... well, protect you from harm.
Thats basicaly where we are right now. It will stay a question of trust aslong as Deathspike wont share SAC with the other Coders. If you should search for a honest reason why Deathspike decided to do this I can only give you one: It´s his work. His code. His program. Maybe he simply wants to keep it that way? There are of course other things coming to our minds like: So he has the full control about SAC and is able to do whatever he wants with it with no chance of a warning for anyone of us IF something should happen.
The question I was asking myself was simple. What could actually happen if Deathspike´s intentions are bad. What can a trojan actually do to your Computer? I´m not very experienced in that kind of stuff. I´ve never had a Virus (At least I wasnt aware of it lol). Maybe some education on that matter would be beneficial? I´m very interested in finding out what could really happen if SAC is some harmful program.
Can something like that actually destroy your Computer? I know, it wont explode like some nuke but I really have no clue whats possible and what isnt. Some people have private files saved on their PC. Passwords, pictures, information etc. So a hacker could (With the help of spreading a trojan) gain access to files like pictures or even passwords? Banking information? Name, address? Phone number? :D
I´m really confused. I really have to admit that I´m not sacred, yet. Maybe thats because I simply think that even if Deathspike has got some bad intentions with his SAC, man, he isnt able to kill me with it after all, rofl.
What I wouldnt want the hacker to see are pics of my girlfriend, friends, myself, whatever. I couldnt stand someone jerking off to a picture of my girl lmao. But thats really the worst thing I can imagine! So I decided to give it a try and meh, see what happens. I kind of trust Deathspike. I could be wrong but it was my decision and if something actually goes wrong I´ll blame myself for it and nobody else.
Could someone with enough knowledge about what COULD happen enlight us? Other than that I dont really have anything to say about it. We all stand and fall with our own decisions and we have the choice. It´s not like someone is forcing you to use SAC, play MB2 or hang around here at all. You do/dont do stuff because you choose to. At least here :)
Gunman121
18-10-2009, 19:14
Wildebeest, I agree...but my objective was not to flame, but rather bring light and strong attention to what people are getting themselves into. If you have people within your own development team that are blatantly saying they do not trust him, and yet mb2 "sponsors, or host" this certain individuals file, what am I suppose to think? That it's ok to trust this file, regardless of people saying its a "false positive" You can't blame me for just shedding light on this program, and I hope people will think twice and especially anyone who plans to put this up on their server.
By the way yuou know he was on the team before his ''hack'' was released. He created the orig security system as well. I don't know why people think he wants to get into your computers, what would he do?
''OMFG HE HAS LINKS TO XVIDEOS DOT COM, I MUST STEAL IT12123''
Seriously, Use sandbox if you're so paranoid about it. I can understand people want to be safe about their pc, but the testers have tested this thing for months, and i've personally talked to deathspike alot about what he does, and he makes sense.
He has to create / get wall hacks in order to be sure his anti cheat will work. Can you imagine creating an anti cheat with out knowing where things are hooked too? It just wouldn't work.
Could someone with enough knowledge about what COULD happen enlight us?
Deathspike will phone your girlfriend, jerk off your bank informations and nuke your mum.
Azuvector
18-10-2009, 21:21
The question I was asking myself was simple. What could actually happen if Deathspike´s intentions are bad. What can a trojan actually do to your Computer? I´m not very experienced in that kind of stuff. I´ve never had a Virus (At least I wasnt aware of it lol). Maybe some education on that matter would be beneficial? I´m very interested in finding out what could really happen if SAC is some harmful program.
Anything and everything software-related. A virus/trojan/etc cannot in any way harm the hardware of your computer(Save in some obscure cases with badly-designed hardware. This is rare to the point of not being worth worrying about.). But it can, as you inquire, capture passwords, private files, banking information, etc. It can also render your computer unbootable. I suppose you could do really nasty stuff like flashing a BIOS with corrupt data too(Which would make reformatting your machine not fix it.).
Depends somewhat on if you run MBII and SAC as an administrator account on your machine. But that's probably required for it to work in the first place... (Dunno for sure offhand; try it?) And in any case is what the majority of people do.
Can something like that actually destroy your Computer? I know, it wont explode like some nuke but I really have no clue whats possible and what isnt.
Melodramatic, but essentially, yes. So can MBII or any other software you run on your machine. With MBII at least though, you don't have the team suddenly going "Yeah... No one can look at this 'special' code. Turn off your virus scanner please.". It might be closed-source, but it's still open internally.
''OMFG HE HAS LINKS TO XVIDEOS DOT COM, I MUST STEAL IT12123''
"OMFG HE HAS BANK ACCOUNT PASSWORDS! MUST STEAL IT12123"
? Making an ass of yourself doesn't change the fact that this could be done, and while that might not be a big thing for children who do nothing with their computer but play games and view porn, it's a major thing for anyone else. And there's nothing but Deathspike's assurances that it won't happen.
Behaving like a monkey and flinging poop at anyone who happens to not have your blind trust in a single autonomous person they don't know, who's made some very shady decisions, is beyond foolish.
Deathspike
18-10-2009, 21:24
Even without administrator privileges you can access a lot of functions that could completely screw up your PC. Like you said, there's nothing but me saying that it wont happen. Use sandboxie :p
Azuvector
18-10-2009, 21:33
Use sandboxie :p
Which also isn't a sure thing, especially when it's recommended by someone who enjoys creating software hacks, as defence against their own misuse.
There's 77 results for "exploit" on the Sandboxie forums alone, for example.
I can't vouch for the effectiveness of any of these, but hey, try some alternatives too:
http://www.softsphere.com/
http://www.altiris.com/Download/svsPersonal.aspx
Deathspike
18-10-2009, 21:43
You could even get VirtualBox and load up an Ubuntu/Windows guest. It has a pretty decent OpenGL support and should only cause 50% FPS drop. Either way - I don't care what you all do. If you think I'm so evil and I am going to eat your computer, just drop SAC from the servers showing nobody cares, and I'll take my leave.
Even if he did let the MBII team see the source, how would they know thats the code he is actually compiling? :)
Even if he did let the MBII team see the source, how would they know thats the code he is actually compiling? :)
The same thing would count for MBII or any software..
Thing is you should be able to trust people :/
Edit:
But it can, as you inquire, capture passwords, private files, banking information, etc
Awesome how you suspect someone who puts a lot of work into something. If you are afraid your banking info for instance is not safe, it means your not protecting it very well, meaning that not just SAC, but any random software would be able to get it.
=Someone=
18-10-2009, 22:09
Either way - I don't care what you all do. If you think I'm so evil and I am going to eat your computer, just drop SAC from the servers showing nobody cares, and I'll take my leave.
:p
Azuvector
19-10-2009, 00:32
Thing is you should be able to trust people :/
Sure. Yet Deathspike emphatically doesn't trust anyone on the MBII Team. Despite being given privileged access to MBII's source in the first place.
However loony you might think the conspiracy theories surrounding people's opinions of Deathspike might be, remember that it all started with him, not the other way around.
Awesome how you suspect someone who puts a lot of work into something. If you are afraid your banking info for instance is not safe, it means your not protecting it very well, meaning that not just SAC, but any random software would be able to get it.
Any random keylogger, sure. Which would be trivial to insert into SAC. This isn't something new, Sxx. If the computer you're doing private stuff on is compromised, so is all that private stuff.
Fact of the matter is...
Deathspike approached the MBII team with a hack he'd made for MBII, and went "Look how easy it was to make a hack for something with zero protections! Let me make antihacks!" (Well and good, thanks!)
Deathspike immediately attempted to hide the original AntiCheat from everyone on the MBII Team except Wilde, 'til I raised a stink about it internally.
The original MBII AntiCheat was opened up internally, along with various other projects by Deathspike(Like, I dunno, True Ping, and Smart Entities, neither of which work very well, if at all.).
As has been said before, most of the other coders on the MBII Team have zero interest in assembly language hackery(In the original sense of the word.), and just want to make a fun game. That said, whatever comments about how stupid the MBII Team is, by Deathspike(And to a degree, we've been stupid to get into this position of being held hostage to this chicanery in the first place.), several facts remain:
1. Any programmer can sit down with a CPU architecture reference and figure out what someone's doing in assembly language, given the desire to bother with such things. Or learn how themselves. Especially given how well-commented Deathspike's code tends to be. Generally? No, no one wants to. It turns him on, not the other people on the team. Same for the creation of hacks in the first place. Me, personally? I've done things in assembly language. I don't especially enjoy it, and I've lost interest in pursuing them further. Outside of certain specialized pursuits, you get more done by not bothering with it.
2. Having access to things also has benefits in the trust department if something goes wrong, to be able to point to something specifically and go "This is the problem." or "This person screwed you."
3. Deathspike could vanish tomorrow and SAC would die, despite MBII, the team behind it, and the playerbase still being around.
SAC got announced, with the fact of it being again hidden from the MBII Team quietly shuffled off into the background as a minor datum. This time, not even Wilde has access.
Deathspike, when questioned about this, essentially falls back on rhetoric about how he's sick of explaining himself(Despite never having done so to anyone's satisfaction. He's made threads internally about how no one listens to him, too...yet a search of the forums shows he's never posted about the issue he's complaining about.), and how he'll take his ball(SAC, no pun intended.) and go home with it if people don't want to play by his rules.
It's revealed by Deathspike that he's given access to SAC to people outside of the MBII Team.
Deathspike continues to refuse to share with anyone on the MBII Team, period.
Deathspike accuses Acidus, myself, and presumably Wilde--since he also refuses to share access to SAC with him--of hacking, and claims no one on the MBII Team is trustworthy.
SAC gets released as separate from MBII. You're trusting Deathspike to use it, not the MBII team.
So, before you go defending him, and inventing reasons for him to keep SAC semi-private(Remember, he's shared it with "people who can understand it" without giving anyone else the opportunity to do so, and is actively hostile to anyone trying to learn to, should they feel like it.) sit down and think about how insane some of this stuff is, and how nebulous and bizarre the reasoning behind it must be.
Remember, I used to trust Deathspike. I don't anymore. See why? Read above.
What would happen when Dethspike will die tommorow? Perish the thought!
Mr_Oujamaflip
19-10-2009, 01:30
I would quote you Azu, but it's too long.
The part about not being able to understand it, that's extremely condescending. How does Vortex know you wouldn't understand it? I don't know how proficient you or Wilde or whoever are at that type of code, but as far as I'm aware they all have similarities so understanding it shouldn't be too out of reach.
About the trust, can't have it work one way. Personally I've never trusted him, when I heard about the ex-hacker making antihacks I lol'd and continied on my way, but this is pretty weak. Showing it to some randoms but not to the people you're allegedly making it for? Again I lol'd. I have the SAC, but to be honest, I don't take care of my PC very well so I couldn't give a ****. The only things I'm careful of are my passwords and whatnot, not of which I save on the PC except forum passwords like here.
Whatever, my own problems with SAC are irrelevent. What I do have a problem with is the way Vortex has gone about it, this thread has been a bit of a revelation and all the secrecy is disgusting. There's noone who can back Vortex up here with any hard evidence and if it was me as a Co-Leader I'd have refused to use it unless the code was made available.
Assassin
19-10-2009, 01:37
*snip*
You make a strong argument and you've proven yourself trustworthy in the past. Sorry Deathspike but I've decided to remove SAC from my computer until a coder from the MB team can confirm that there are no alterior motives involved.
Guess this means I'll have to put up with rampant projectile spamming wallhackers though.
It must have been SAC which destroyed my external hard drive!!!
tbh this whole SAC thing is garbage - I've never encountered cheaters to my knowledge, and no one that i've known has spoken on them in MB2 so I dont see the point.
I've never encountered cheaters to my knowledge
You obviously need more knowledge.
and no one that i've known has spoken on them in MB2 so I dont see the point.
And your friends might want to study with you.
Which also isn't a sure thing, especially when it's recommended by someone who enjoys creating software hacks, as defence against their own misuse.
There's 77 results for "exploit" on the Sandboxie forums alone, for example.
Ok
I thought this argument couldn't possibly get any stupider, but I see I have been proven wrong.
Get over yourselves, seriously.
With that I leave this brain liquefying thread.
if it was me as a Co-Leader I'd have refused to use it unless the code was made available.
Tbh I'm surprised SAC got its own forum section because the position of the leaders is "We don't know anything about it, use at your own risk"....I think its disappointing that we threw our community to the wolves like that, but there was no ideal solution.
Like Azu, I trusted Deathspike completely, but no reasonable person could look at his recent behaviour without losing faith. Forget the MB2 team association to SAC, there isn't one, and don't trust Deathspike just because he has been on the mb2 team a while, he has declared himself an external entity.
Here is the absolute bottom line, simple facts:
SAC is a piece of software that claims to stop cheaters in mb2. It is developed by a talented hacker who has sole access and control over its content. When asked about its content, he has proven hostile, paranoid and secretive.
Draw your own conclusions.
SAC is a piece of software that claims to stop cheaters in mb2. It is developed by a talented hacker who has sole access and control over its content. When asked about its content, he has proven hostile, paranoid and secretive.
Draw your own conclusions.
Well sure, but if I wanted people to draw their own conclusions, I wouldn't put my own non-neutral view upon it. KTHX
Bottom line, truly, is use at own risk. End.
Wildebeest
19-10-2009, 08:28
Tbh I'm surprised SAC got its own forum section because the position of the leaders is "We don't know anything about it, use at your own risk"....I think its disappointing that we threw our community to the wolves like that, but there was no ideal solution.
SAC has its own section because it's separate from MB, similar to how Torn Earth had forums hosted here.
Our options after a looong discussion were:
Integrate SAC with MB.
Provide the ability for MB to support SAC as a separate project.
Remove support for SAC.
Integration meant that we were liable for the activities of an unknown piece of software. So, we couldn't do that. (Note that even JKG has this problem, even though they have access to the code, since Deathspike does the final compile.)
Removing support for SAC meant allowing all of the hacks built up during the original anti-cheat period to reemerge, leaving us worse off than before.
So, we decided to take the middle ground. We are providing it with separate forums for simplicity, since otherwise we'd just have to redirect inquiries about SAC to another forum and frustrate a bunch of our users.
So, use at your own risk, knowing that it's an independent project.
We provide support for it since that's a better alternative than not providing support for it. And, as long as you trust it, it provides real value.
I'm closing this thread now. This post describes what happened, and the reasoning behind the decision. Anyone who wishes to continue this discussion should do so via PM or internal forums.
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