View Full Version : From the MB2 Labs: A New Gamemode
Wildebeest
06-06-2009, 20:57
I figured it was about time I wrote one of these.
Abstract: Semi-authentic mode is being replaced by something awesome: a hybrid of FA and Open modes.
Disclaimer: This might not make the next build. Don't kill me.
A long time ago, some team member mentioned that it'd be interesting to have a mode where the Open-style point setup could be determined by the mapper, rather than us.
This got me to thinking about how cool it might be to have a mode that was a sort of hybrid of FA and Open modes. Here is what I have so far:
Mappers can define a point buy to connect various FA properties to points. These properties currently include: MB attributes, force powers, class flags, saber styles, weapons, holdables, customveh, speed, AP multiplier, and BP multiplier. This set of properties will expand in the future, probably to include weapon overrides.
The last 4 default to their FA values in their absence. The rest need to be explicitly given buyable values. All other FA properties, including models and class limits, are defaulted to their FA values.
The game can create a menu for you. However, if you wish to customize the menu, you can do so, as long as you name it the same thing the game would.
If you do not create an SA, a default one will be used. Currently, the SA defaults emulate the MB Open mode classes. This effectively turns your SA into per class limits on the MB Open mode classes.
I've attached a sample new SA .mbch file. Note that behind the scenes, MB associates buyables with force powers to build off of the base point buy code. Not all force powers are available to each team, and some have special properties. All of this will be documented for mappers upon release of the system.
This is what it looks like (SA and screenies by =Someone=):
Now, I want your opinion. Droid suggested that we might use this mode as a way to revive point progression in an interesting way. The current point progression system is broken. After a lot of discussion with various team members, I've come up with the following spec for point progression.
Like penalty points, equipment points are retained for a certain period of time if a player wishes to reconnect to the same server. (This is already implemented.)
Player enters a server. He is granted a certain amount of points, ramped based on the number of rounds the server has had people playing in it, if he's not recovering points from before.
Player is granted points for completing a round on the winning team.
Player is granted points based on completing an objective. The map may override the default for given objectives.
Player keeps track of damage dealt. Dealing damage to the enemy team adds damage, while dealing damage to your team subtracts damage. Every x positive damage dealt, you gain points. Every y negative damage dealt, you lose points. This ensures that you don't lose points if someone steps in front of your weapon if you're doing a good job.
A player's class defines his max and min points. If you switch to a class with a lower limit, you lose those points.
The map may override the default thresholds we set for gains and loss of points.
Feedback would be appreciated.
ANYTHING to bring back the good ol' PP system ^_^
This would be epic beyond imagination. The possibilities are endless.
About the other idea, the overhauled PP system, I still wouldn't play it because I don't want to earn points.
This would be awesome. I like it.
Metaguardian
06-06-2009, 23:17
That's probably the best SA revamp idea I've heard. I'm looking forward to it.:D
=Someone=
06-06-2009, 23:56
CTF should be an extension of this, imho. Imagine the different kinds of teams you could have.
Lt.Claim
07-06-2009, 00:41
Wait, what happens if the class you wanna join is full ? You get another class ? and what happens to your points then ? How are they spent ? do you lose them ? and Do you really think that's fair to lose points because someone else is taking your class and you want to take another class, or just to balanced the teams ? Maybe you'd need a minimum amount of point to be able to take certain classes, to avoid them getting taken by noobs with no point that'll just waste them ? wait no, that's not such a good idea ...
Seems to me that the point progression thing, although a pretty neat idea, might be very complicated to do ... But you're the developers, so you probably know better than me...
Hope it will work the way you want, cause it puzzles me for the moment...
Oh, and what's a vibro-shiv ? is it the same thing as the assasin from JT has ?
AceVentura
07-06-2009, 00:52
CTF should be an extension of this, imho. Imagine the different kinds of teams you could have.ctf has nothing to do with gamemodes. it's independent of that.
antiflag
07-06-2009, 01:19
sound like a really good idea.
I'm looking forward to see it in action.
=Someone=
07-06-2009, 01:28
Wait, what happens if the class you wanna join is full ? You get another class ?
It's up tp the mapper/SA maker. Republic Cruiser, f.i., will either have large class limits, i.e. allowing at least 5-8 ppl per class, or no limits at all. Depends largely on the first tests.
and what happens to your points then ? How are they spent ? do you lose them ? and Do you really think that's fair to lose points because someone else is taking your class and you want to take another class, or just to balanced the teams ?
Points per class depend entirely on the mapper/SA maker. If he/she sets up the classnumberlimits generously, you won't have to fear losing your class at all.
Maybe you'd need a minimum amount of point to be able to take certain classes, to avoid them getting taken by noobs with no point that'll just waste them ? wait no, that's not such a good idea ...
Dunno, could be nice for maps like Tantive tbh (Vader/Leia).
Seems to me that the point progression thing, although a pretty neat idea, might be very complicated to do ... But you're the developers, so you probably know better than me...
Hope it will work the way you want, cause it puzzles me for the moment...
We'll make a decent documentation for it to be sure it's quickly accessible and easily understandable. Felt quite overwhelming at first to me too, tbh. :)
Oh, and what's a vibro-shiv ? is it the same thing as the assasin from JT has ?The model currently is a variation of the JT one (I still wonder if making it look like the RC one would be a good idea?). Generally, it's supposed to work differently when it's fully done.
The model currently is a variation of the JT one (I still wonder if making it look like the RC one would be a good idea?). Generally, it's supposed to work differently when it's fully done.
Yeah and also you need to put a custom 'idle' animation, so it looks like he's got his fists up.
Lucariolix
07-06-2009, 03:38
will there still be normal FA?
Wildebeest
07-06-2009, 04:12
will there still be normal FA?
Oh, yes. This will just replace the third game mode that no one uses currently.
Its gunna take alot of calculations for all those maps we have...
Sounds interesting, at least. Hopefully we'll see it in action soon.
I wonder how much time is gonna be used to edit the maps that are already released.
anyway, good idea. I'm looking forward to trying.
MrEmperor
07-06-2009, 09:48
Sounds like fun!
Assassin
07-06-2009, 10:02
I wonder how much time is gonna be used to edit the maps that are already released.
anyway, good idea. I'm looking forward to trying.
That entirely depends on how the system works. If it just generates the menu from the .mbch file then it shouldn't require updating but I'm assuming since mappers can assign point values that it requires an additional file. Still, I'd say that if you had someone simply adding point values to existing FA classes it wouldn't take too long (a day or two max) unless you wanted to "balance" the values.
Nice to see something new coming to good'ol Mb2.
Damn that's nice! Implent NOW!! :cool:
TheLOLipop
07-06-2009, 11:08
Who's gonna play DOTF now mwhahahah.
A VERY CRAZY ANGER NERO
07-06-2009, 15:45
Implement. With new point progression.
It'll be called Semi-Authentic or given a new name?
And yeah, we'll see who plays dotf from now on.
Yes! Implement nao!
Who's gonna play DOTF now mwhahahah.
Prepare for thousands of DOTF copies with different semi FA's... :|
(Or however you wanna call it)
Just wondering, but since the FA's are partly client side, this doesnt mean that every server can have their own semi FA's right?
Assassin
07-06-2009, 16:38
Just wondering, but since the FA's are partly client side, this doesnt mean that every server can have their own semi FA's right?
No, they still can. FA works like this as well. The issue is if there's new classes, they won't beselctable for you and of course your point menus will probably be inaccurate.
antiflag
07-06-2009, 18:50
let's find those 2 who voted "no"
TheLOLipop
07-06-2009, 19:22
let's find those 2 who voted "no"
Madmartigan and {M}ArroW
Tallfire
07-06-2009, 19:34
This is great! And to think it was only put on the forums two times unlike the spammed ideas that rarely get implemented. I'm not sure if we should have the point progression this early. I'd think its best if we would take it slowly. I'm not going to vote incase someone changes my mind.
No, they still can. FA works like this as well. The issue is if there's new classes, they won't beselctable for you and of course your point menus will probably be inaccurate.
Partly I said... ;)
Even if you just change the model of an existing class it will turn out to be kyle.
What about hidden lines that show up once you buy an certain ability?
Like with ARC rifle.
You buy the rifle, and after that two lines show up that allow you to buy scope or the grenade attachement.
EDIT
Sovvy for double post :x
StarWarsGeek
07-06-2009, 22:10
Partly I said... ;)
Even if you just change the model of an existing class it will turn out to be kyle.
Actually it will only show up as Kyle if it's a new class. If it's an existing class anyone who has the modified files will see it as whatever you change it to, but everyone else will see it as it used to be. It basically works just like a replacement in that case. Changing what abilities can be bought in SA serverside and stuff though won't work out well I think. Even if it's just changing the stuff on existing classes, eveyone else's point menus will reflect the files they don't know what they're buying.
LewsTherin
07-06-2009, 23:13
If you do not create an SA, a default one will be used. Currently, the SA defaults emulate the MB Open mode classes. This effectively turns your SA into per class limits on the MB Open mode classes.
I came.
=Someone=
08-06-2009, 03:29
Prepare for thousands of DOTF copies with different semi FA's... :|
I'd personally like to see the official SAs be more desireable than most custom-made ones, and for that, they surely need to pay more attention to the kind of classes the players actually would enjoy playing/fighting against. So, if you actually want this mode to be fun, why not let us know more than a prognosis of a worst case scenario, so we/I can make changes based on the community's actual opinion?
Generally, I feel FA was too restictive and strict in accordance to the writer's ideas of how the gameplay is supposed to evolve. Now, SA has the inherit liberties to not let that happen and make every class not just as equally interesting, customizeable and overall as useful on the battlefield as their intellectual parent in open mode, but to go beyond that by adding completely new classes to a still balanced mix.
It's an extension to the design choices a mapper can make by not just letting him add a new place to play MB2 in, but to alter the whole experience of playing it there. It's still MB2, but without the boredom of having to play somewhere without throne rooms, hangars and hallways with a mix of skills, powers and abilities that only works perfectly on DotF.
;tl:dr You now know of SA, you have a word in it, use it.
This is great! And to think it was only put on the forums two times unlike the spammed ideas that rarely get implemented. I'm not sure if we should have the point progression this early. I'd think its best if we would take it slowly. I'm not going to vote incase someone changes my mind.
Give it a chance.
In truth, this is one of the very rare instances where the team members don't each cook their own soup, but work together on one big project - everyone throwing some <3 in the pot :p - and it's probably the best warm-up they can get before tackling heavier stuff like new classes in open (- might also be worth to mention that projects like these also seem to fix an impressive deal of bugs along the way as they shine light on details that have long been overlooked).
Hexodious
08-06-2009, 10:50
might also be worth to mention that projects like these also seem to fix an impressive deal of bugs along the way as they shine light on details that have long been overlooked).
Woop Woop, This sounds good, some of the OLD stuff being sorted :D
antiflag
10-06-2009, 05:03
poll results sum it up.
GIVE NAO!
The Swashbuckler
10-06-2009, 23:25
I'm liking these ideas. Hell, almost adds a bit of a roleplaying element to the game: choose a class, "level up" so to speak, gain new abilities. Which I suppose is exactly what point progression always was, but here it sounds better.
StarWarsGeek
11-06-2009, 00:12
I'm liking these ideas. Hell, almost adds a bit of a roleplaying element to the game: choose a class, "level up" so to speak, gain new abilities. Which I suppose is exactly what point progression always was, but here it sounds better.
Hell, almost adds a bit of a roleplaying element to the game: choose a class, "level up" so to speak, gain new abilities.
a bit of a roleplaying element to the game
roleplaying
Roleplaying? In my MB2? I think not.
Thankfully, there's always that handy 5 minute time limit to stop those drated roleplayers! I could see them liking this if there were any though.
Angrenost
11-06-2009, 00:52
Class queues might be problematic, is there going to be a system similar to FA?
Wildebeest
11-06-2009, 07:57
Class queues might be problematic, is there going to be a system similar to FA?
It is the FA class queue.
Roleplaying? In my MB2? I think not.
Thankfully, there's always that handy 5 minute time limit to stop those drated roleplayers! I could see them liking this if there were any though.
You have a problem with RPGs?
Torrentazos
11-06-2009, 18:47
There was a group of players who were active around b18/b19, who were solely Roleplayers, known as DOP. And on their server, they found a way to remove the time limit, so having a time limit doesn't stop roleplaying.
And i don't think he has anything against Roleplayers themselves, just MBII isn't made for roleplaying. I have to agree with him on that one. But then again I think roleplaying in any game is a pretty sad thing to do anyway, so I'm probably being a bit biased against them.
It is up to them tho, if they want to sit and pretend to be a real jedi in a real star wars universe then it's up to them :s
There is a difference between roleplaying and roleplaying game elements...
Tallfire
11-06-2009, 19:29
Roleplaying? In my MB2? I think not.
Thankfully, there's always that handy 5 minute time limit to stop those drated roleplayers! I could see them liking this if there were any though.
Panic more dude. Why would roleplayers specifically like this anyway? The time limit doesn't seem to do much towards rping.
Mappers can define a point buy to connect various FA properties to points. These properties currently include: MB attributes, force powers, class flags, saber styles, weapons, holdables, customveh, speed, AP multiplier, and BP multiplier. This set of properties will expand in the future, probably to include weapon overrides.
The last 4 default to their FA values in their absence. The rest need to be explicitly given buyable values. All other FA properties, including models and class limits, are defaulted to their FA values.
The game can create a menu for you. However, if you wish to customize the menu, you can do so, as long as you name it the same thing the game would.
If you do not create an SA, a default one will be used. Currently, the SA defaults emulate the MB Open mode classes. This effectively turns your SA into per class limits on the MB Open mode classes.
Wow! Not only does this bring back point progression in an amazing way, it also allows class limits with the default SA (limiting number of Deka, Jedi, etc ftw). There's so many possibilities for this mode...
Torrentazos
11-06-2009, 19:40
There is a difference between roleplaying and roleplaying game elements...
Oh i know, I love RPG games like Oblivion and the lot =D
I just don't like roleplaying, such as "Come to me, my Padawan *Glances over*" etc etc
Daven Coyle
11-06-2009, 20:03
There was a group of players who were active around b18/b19, who were solely Roleplayers, known as DOP. And on their server, they found a way to remove the time limit, so having a time limit doesn't stop roleplaying.
And i don't think he has anything against Roleplayers themselves, just MBII isn't made for roleplaying. I have to agree with him on that one. But then again I think roleplaying in any game is a pretty sad thing to do anyway, so I'm probably being a bit biased against them.
It is up to them tho, if they want to sit and pretend to be a real jedi in a real star wars universe then it's up to them :s
and yet you were in dop =D a jedi knight if i recall, not exactly a low rank. oh and since RC2 time limits have been hardcoded so an rp server is highly unlikely to spring up. not to mention that something like the rp mod by the JEDI clan in jka works better for rping. Less paranoia everyone.
But yeah adding some more rpg elements would add some more depth to the game. I always liked the idea of point progression and with the improvements like giving people who join the game after a few rounds more points seems like it would help make things more fun.
Torrentazos
11-06-2009, 20:14
I know, it brings back bad memories, After I left that thing I've realised how silly i think it was, and its embarracing to think i used to do it, which is another factor to why i dislike it now with a passion haha :P
JohnMatrix
16-06-2009, 13:05
I haven't read the thread yet, but for the love of God, don't let the server admins do anything with the settings of this game mode.
I haven't read the thread yet, but for the love of God, don't let the server admins do anything with the settings of this game mode.
/agreed.
Unless MBII team wants every server to have changed gameplay.
StarWarsGeek
16-06-2009, 16:13
I haven't read the thread yet, but for the love of God, don't let the server admins do anything with the settings of this game mode.
The server admins won't be able to change any more things than they would be able to for FA mode. If they do make changes, they more than likely won't work well for the clients.
All is good, but this one:
Player keeps track of damage dealt. Dealing damage to the enemy team adds damage, while dealing damage to your team subtracts damage. Every x positive damage dealt, you gain points. Every y negative damage dealt, you lose points. This ensures that you don't lose points if someone steps in front of your weapon if you're doing a good job.
Just for one noob in team all team-members will be punished? I suggest to delete this one.
StarWarsGeek
17-06-2009, 12:59
Just for one noob in team all team-members will be punished? I suggest to delete this one.
How is that punishing all team members? It punishing one person if they TK, not everyone...
Wildebeest
17-06-2009, 17:05
Just for one noob in team all team-members will be punished? I suggest to delete this one.
Each player will keep their own damage total. I think my wording might have confused you.
alenoguerol
30-08-2009, 22:09
point progression should have a reward system. you know after X ammount of kills you get a reward item or feature by class and if you get killed too much you lose that feature. that would be awesum :D
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