View Full Version : finland school shooting
hey, im not gonna go on too much, its happenin so much around now its almost pointless to discuss motives etc etc
but, i know a few finnish players in mb, i really hope and pray none of you, your friends or your family were directly effected by it all :(
take it eazy:)
Central Tendency
24-09-2008, 17:34
Deja Vu, says me.
Guys like these should live, so they could live with the guilt for the rest of their lives in a jail.
Abe, I would prefer cops gunning him down rather than taxpayers having to pay money to keep such low-lifes in jail. Too bad he shot himself (although he failed at killing himself immediately; hopefully he was in alot of pain).
edit: Sucks that someone with a history of mental illnesses is allowed to have a gun though.
cloudstrife
24-09-2008, 18:44
And he killed 8 girls, 1 boy, and 1 teacher.
Rejected complex?
joulupaska
24-09-2008, 18:44
no worries im still here ! o.O
GoodOlBen
24-09-2008, 18:47
Yeah I think school shooting will become the latest trend here in Finland.
Espcially for those who want to hit big in the media and fast. The Finnish media has been fapping to this kind of **** for several years now and it really disgusts me how the guy gets put on a pedestal, even though one coloured in hate and pity.
Just as the last one was starting to get forgotten, the next one comes along. Same time next year?
cesar101
24-09-2008, 18:49
Guys like these should live, so they could live with the guilt for the rest of their lives in a jail.
chances are he would not have any remorse. I read this was the second time it happened in that country. These little shootings seem to be occurring in more and more countries.
How many more school shootings before these uncivilised countries do something about weapons?
These little shootings seem to be occurring in more and more countries.
Of course, since the media love this kind of stuff.
SpongerobertoSquarepantalones
24-09-2008, 18:58
It's horrible but I'm not sure whether the media should portray these people as monsters. For all we know he was just a nice young man who got beat up at school every day. That doesn't make what he did any less horrible but I'm just saying I don't quite agree with the black-and-white picture people always use in these occasions.
Thoughts go out to the friends and families of the victims.
Assassin
24-09-2008, 19:05
The sad part is that a week before he did this cops questioned him about his youtube history( posting vids of him shooting his gun, his favourite videos being columbine camera footage etc)
Easily preventable.
Vox Clamantis
24-09-2008, 19:21
The sad part is that a week before he did this cops questioned him about his youtube history( posting vids of him shooting his gun, his favourite videos being columbine camera footage etc)
Easily preventable.
Big Brother is watching. :eek:
But apparently not doing anything about it. :rolleyes:
~Gabriel
The sad part is that a week before he did this cops questioned him about his youtube history( posting vids of him shooting his gun, his favourite videos being columbine camera footage etc)
Easily preventable.What do you want them to do? Remove weapons from anyone who posts youtube vids of themselves firing them? Yeah, that won't backlash.:rolleyes:
Besides, the vids the police saw weren't the vids where he made death threats. They were just vids where he fired the gun in areas he wasn't allowed to, IIRC.
cloudstrife
24-09-2008, 19:35
It's horrible but I'm not sure whether the media should portray these people as monsters. For all we know he was just a nice young man who got beat up at school every day. That doesn't make what he did any less horrible but I'm just saying I don't quite agree with the black-and-white picture people always use in these occasions.
Thoughts go out to the friends and families of the victims.He is a monster, regardless his own problems. What you are meaning is that maybe he wasn't a monster before the shooting... but seeing his videos kind of tells me that isnt the case.
The guys who did the columbine murders were bullied every day... this guy really doesn't look like a victim of bullying.
GoodOlBen
24-09-2008, 20:14
How many more school shootings before these uncivilised countries do something about weapons?
Excuse me dawg. Just because we have a large tradition in hunting game doesn't mean that we aren't civilized...
You don't have access to guns that are created for manslaughter purposes here, nor can any regular jimbo go to a wallmart and buy ammo. Noticed the gun he was using? It's main purpose is to be used on a shooting range. That caliber lacks stopping power in the hands of anyone inaccurate. Sadly this guy's been practicing and was able to do plenty of headshots.
And even more on the uncivilized part... When you live in a country with free healthcare, social aid for the poor, one of the top 3 schoolsystems, it's hard to see how we are uncivilized.
Finland's got half of what USA's got in terms of handgun murder http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mor_ass_by_han_dis_percap-assault-handgun-discharge-per-capita
Freedom of action : http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/lif_fre_in_dec_mak-lifestyle-freedom-in-decision-making Oh yes we're the shining light.
Calling Finland a backwater nation is far from what it is. Almost everyone has a cellphone and is entitled to education no matter their backround and income.
Oliver1799
24-09-2008, 20:56
Lol at ben's national pride and disproportionate sense of how important Finland is. :P
It's horrible but I'm not sure whether the media should portray these people as monsters. For all we know he was just a nice young man who got beat up at school every day. That doesn't make what he did any less horrible but I'm just saying I don't quite agree with the black-and-white picture people always use in these occasions.
Thoughts go out to the friends and families of the victims.
Umm, whether he was bullied or not he is a monster for shooting 10 innocent people. It is a black and white picture: someone who shoots 10 innocent people is bad. The only exception that could be argued is if he shot those 10 people to save the lives of 11 or more other people, but even that is barely defensible (utilitarianism ftl). Seeing as how that is not the case, he is definitely, necessarily a monster.
SpongerobertoSquarepantalones
24-09-2008, 21:05
Umm, whether he was bullied or not he is a monster for shooting 10 innocent people. It is a black and white picture: someone who shoots 10 innocent people is bad. The only exception that could be argued is if he shot those 10 people to save the lives of 11 or more other people, but even that is barely defensible (utilitarianism ftl). Seeing as how that is not the case, he is definitely, necessarily a monster.
Of course. There is never an excuse for killing in my mind.
What I meant was that the blame should perhaps not lie entirely with him. As I read more about this person and the videos and the like, yea doesn't seem like he was the poor kid who got bullied and snapped. But there have been other shootings where the killer was (from a certain point of view) a victim. Again, not agreeable, just understandable.
I prefer to believe people are made monsters, not born monsters, but maybe I'm just naive.
Oh, and Finland has some of the world's best educational systems. I know because they pretty much raped Belgium for the spot.
GoodOlBen
24-09-2008, 21:10
Lol at ben's national pride and disproportionate sense of how important Finland is.
Sure we ain't got anything to do with the big leagues, nor do we really have anything interesting going on. The one thing I claimed is that we sure as hell ain't uncivilized. How can a country that's been rated as the country with the most chance for choice be a backwater country with no civilization.
And the quality of the school system also comes to show that there is something making it top notch. No, I did not pull that statistic out of my ass, feel free to google, done my fair share for today..
As for national pride goes, I don't want to live here. Being a neighbouring country for Russia and having obligatory army service make me think that if **** hits the fan, I'll be out there in the frontlines soaking up the first bullets (NOT). I'll be busy living in Canada or Sweden or some other funky funk country that never bothers with wars if **** ever decides to hit the fan.
Almost everyone has a cellphone
lalwut
I'd probably get banned for a week if I post the comment I want to regarding the shooting.
TigerZeta
24-09-2008, 22:00
The sad part is that a week before he did this cops questioned him about his youtube history( posting vids of him shooting his gun, his favourite videos being columbine camera footage etc)
Easily preventable.
*day before.
Mr_Oujamaflip
24-09-2008, 23:06
Excuse me dawg. Just because we have a large tradition in hunting game doesn't mean that we aren't civilized...
You don't have access to guns that are created for manslaughter purposes here, nor can any regular jimbo go to a wallmart and buy ammo. Noticed the gun he was using? It's main purpose is to be used on a shooting range. That caliber lacks stopping power in the hands of anyone inaccurate. Sadly this guy's been practicing and was able to do plenty of headshots.
And even more on the uncivilized part... When you live in a country with free healthcare, social aid for the poor, one of the top 3 schoolsystems, it's hard to see how we are uncivilized.
Finland's got half of what USA's got in terms of handgun murder http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mor_ass_by_han_dis_percap-assault-handgun-discharge-per-capita
Freedom of action : http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/lif_fre_in_dec_mak-lifestyle-freedom-in-decision-making Oh yes we're the shining light.
Calling Finland a backwater nation is far from what it is. Almost everyone has a cellphone and is entitled to education no matter their backround and income.
I agree entirely, I enjoy firing rifles and shotguns at shooting ranges or clay pidgeons or whatever, and my dad owns a rifle and three shotguns. Just because it was a gun that was used does not necessarily mean they should be banned. The kid coulda taken ****ing samurai lessons or some **** and gone around with a sword or something. Or, household things, knives, hell even a drill would do the job, wanna ban drills?
Guns are tools, yes, they're designed to kill people, but it's the person using them that is the killer, not the gun.
I agree entirely, I enjoy firing rifles and shotguns at shooting ranges or clay pidgeons or whatever, and my dad owns a rifle and three shotguns. Just because it was a gun that was used does not necessarily mean they should be banned. The kid coulda taken ****ing samurai lessons or some **** and gone around with a sword or something. Or, household things, knives, hell even a drill would do the job, wanna ban drills?
Guns are tools, yes, they're designed to kill people, but it's the person using them that is the killer, not the gun.
But many more deaths occur with the use of this 'tool'. Sooooo..... I say Ban and cut our losses >_>.
Well, ten people isn't that many...
I never understood why these shooters do such small jobs. I mean, once you gun one down, you're already ****ed for life nearly.. might as well go out with a bang, before you kill yourself too, that is.
Mr_Oujamaflip
24-09-2008, 23:41
But many more deaths occur with the use of this 'tool'. Sooooo..... I say Ban and cut our losses >_>.
I can assure you, if a kid was pissed off enough to do it, he'd find a way with or without guns.
Assassin
24-09-2008, 23:44
Well, ten people isn't that many...
I never understood why these shooters do such small jobs. I mean, once you gun one down, you're already ****ed for life nearly.. might as well go out with a bang, before you kill yourself too, that is.
They gotta beat the high score.
They gotta beat the high score.
There's the comment I bet I would get banned for.
What I meant was that the blame should perhaps not lie entirely with him. As I read more about this person and the videos and the like, yea doesn't seem like he was the poor kid who got bullied and snapped. But there have been other shootings where the killer was (from a certain point of view) a victim. Again, not agreeable, just understandable
Perhaps not blame, but he's responsible nonetheless. He could have sought help in some way, and he could have from where he was. He lived in a developed country with a social health care system and a free government.
Troubled people usually have at least some inkling that if there's something wrong. Letting it fester or outright ignoring it is almost always a bad idea. Worse still, dealing with it in such a reckless and destructive act is simply unacceptable, and I'd go as far as to say unforgivable.
Vox Clamantis
25-09-2008, 00:36
I can assure you, if a kid was pissed off enough to do it, he'd find a way with or without guns.
Guns are not exactly in the same category as knives and baseball bats, or even swords and spears. They make it too easy. They break down the barrier between the desire and the execution. And also, perhaps most terribly, the gun is so much harder to defend against. A kid going on a rampage with a sword might get stopped cold by a couple of gym teachers with hockey sticks and cricket bats. A kid with a gun...different story.
~Gabriel
Mr_Oujamaflip
25-09-2008, 01:20
Guns are not exactly in the same category as knives and baseball bats, or even swords and spears. They make it too easy. They break down the barrier between the desire and the execution. And also, perhaps most terribly, the gun is so much harder to defend against. A kid going on a rampage with a sword might get stopped cold by a couple of gym teachers with hockey sticks and cricket bats. A kid with a gun...different story.
~Gabriel
The principle is still there though. Why ruin it for people who want to use things responsibly for recreational purposes cos every so often some **** goes psycho?
ninja burger
25-09-2008, 01:33
we can't put a ban on guns. we will need all we can get when the zombies attack.
LewsTherin
25-09-2008, 01:45
The principle is still there though. Why ruin it for people who want to use things responsibly for recreational purposes cos every so often some **** goes psycho?
You say that it's O.K. to use a weapon that has NO PURPOSE other than to destroy because you enjoy firing it? That in your opinion people should continue to die because you enjoy firing a weapon? >.>
But how would we defend ourselves from aliens without our guns? :p
With repeating crossbows, Ender.
Furry_rodian
25-09-2008, 02:04
I can assure you, if a kid was pissed off enough to do it, he'd find a way with or without guns.
Dude, but the fact that it would be that much harder would certainly cut it down a small amount at least. Shouldn't peoples lives be more important then keeping some gun toting NRA enthusiasts happy?
Mr. Hapless
25-09-2008, 02:22
A kid going on a rampage with a sword might get stopped cold by a couple of gym teachers with hockey sticks and cricket bats.
Best movie idea from this forum yet.
Also, I don't think the NRA exists in Finland.
Golden Mando Bro
25-09-2008, 02:27
Guys like these should live, so they could live with the guilt for the rest of their lives in a jail.
I disagree, it is quite expensive to hold a prisoner in maximum security, AND they might make a FRIENd in prison and maybe have FUN AT LEAST ONCE in the rest of their life, which is more. than they deserve
cloudstrife
25-09-2008, 02:43
I agree entirely, I enjoy firing rifles and shotguns at shooting ranges or clay pidgeons or whatever, and my dad owns a rifle and three shotguns. Just because it was a gun that was used does not necessarily mean they should be banned. The kid coulda taken ****ing samurai lessons or some **** and gone around with a sword or something. Or, household things, knives, hell even a drill would do the job, wanna ban drills?
Guns are tools, yes, they're designed to kill people, but it's the person using them that is the killer, not the gun.What if shooting ranges owned the guns? Wouldnt you be able to shoot them and have fun? Of course you wouldnt be able to sleep with your gun at nights, but... it could actually work.
Assassin
25-09-2008, 03:10
I disagree, it is quite expensive to hold a prisoner in maximum security, AND they might make a FRIENd in prison and maybe have FUN AT LEAST ONCE in the rest of their life, which is more. than they deserve
Yeah, because everyone who commits a crime is a horrible horrible person and impossible to rehabilitate.
If you're going to have such a narrow view of the world, atleast keep it to yourself.
Abe, I would prefer cops gunning him down rather than taxpayers having to pay money to keep such low-lifes in jail. Too bad he shot himself (although he failed at killing himself immediately; hopefully he was in alot of pain).
edit: Sucks that someone with a history of mental illnesses is allowed to have a gun though.
You took the words out of my mouth Dizzi. I 100% percent share your opinion!, look at the last thread that was similiar to this one that talked about school shooting I posted my feelings on this type of shi- and right now I'm lazy to write the whole thing again so BRB gotta copy it then paste it here and let me say just a little of my toughs. Why do I agree this kind people<(NO)? Monsters let's call them like that instead, so anyways, these who commits this type of shi- should be exterminated/eliminated/shot/tortured for a better world, you say this is uncivilized/not right? don't give me that same old shi- answer. BRB.
Assassin
25-09-2008, 03:42
you say this is uncivilized/not right? don't give me that same old shi- answer. BRB.
Okay I'll give you a new one.
It's pointless. Will torturing this person undo what they did? No. Will killing this person make you feel better? No. Did you forget they HEY, maybe this person has friends and family that care about them no matter what he did? Clearly not. It IS uncivilized, it is NOT justice in any way shape or form.
Okay I'll give you a new one.
It's pointless. Will torturing this person undo what they did? No. Will killing this person make you feel better? No. Did you forget they HEY, maybe this person has friends and family that care about them no matter what he did? Clearly not. It IS uncivilized, it is NOT justice in any way shape or form.
20 mins of beating time with a person strapped to a chair could go a long way in terms of getting some revenge, imo.
And yeah its terrible and all, but you know what, these things get blown way out of proportion everytime. Its like a get rich quick scheme but with Fame, because right after it happens everybody seems to know your goddamn even outside of your country.
Now tell me this, how is it a school shooting seemingly attracted more attention than the war? Both are about similar things, shooting and killing, yet news agencys would looove to report on a school shooting, because horrible or not, **** like that sells good.
Anyway im just gonna stop posting lol. I feel bad for the familys of the kids that died, RIP tbh.
Assassin
25-09-2008, 04:03
Now tell me this, how is it a school shooting seemingly attracted more attention than the war? Both are about similar things, shooting and killing, yet news agencys would looove to report on a school shooting, because horrible or not, **** like that sells good.
Anyway im just gonna stop posting lol. I feel bad for the familys of the kids that died, RIP tbh.
Because shooting innocent white children is more important than the innocent starving black children shooting other innocent starving black children.
Okay I'll give you a new one.
It's pointless. Will torturing this person undo what they did? No. Will killing this person make you feel better? No. Did you forget they HEY, maybe this person has friends and family that care about them no matter what he did? Clearly not. It IS uncivilized, it is NOT justice in any way shape or form.
Hehehe nice speech there sadly that's doesn't work in real-life.
So I said that I'll copy/paste this that I wrote a long time ago and this is my feelings to this kind of situations.
BAHH!!! all the damn arrogance.... that noooo send him to prison.... wait! noooo send him to a mental hospital... or nooo it's wrong to torture them/kill them.... hold on... noooo they have human rights/they have family.... then tell me WHO THE HELL gave this monsters rights to make such horrible crimes and to get away with it? comong killing/torturing that's not a human thing... I know that but they did it with passion and I bet they enjoyed it every second of doing such devolish acts these ****ing monsters destroyers of society & peace and just to have them in prison. Dammit people wake up (GOD OPEN THEIR DAMN EYES) WE MUST get rid of this mother****ers, low-life, pests who are just here to create sadness and pain to families who have never done anything bad and this kind of shi-happens, so these bastards get to be in a prison/mental hospital for life and lives and probably didn't give a **** what they have doned and faked their guilt and some of them get the luck to get out of prison/mental hospital just to get free and create more violence, hatred, pain, and more sadness in this world which I like to still believe it is still filled with good people. These creatures are not need in this world!!! GOD just kill the ****ers enough of this garbage, the world is ****ed up already and it's getting worse or will get more worse in the new years to come, we need a change... ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.!
Because shooting innocent white children is more important than the innocent starving black children shooting other innocent starving black children.
HEY, there is no need to change subjects here, we are here talking about low-lifes killing people, not about race/innocent starving children.
Blame that to the countries corrupt goverment, because I know they didn't gave a shi- for their people a long time ago and make them more stupid with the poor-quality stuff they offer (bad education, no jobs, crime, lie to their people/media/goverment cover-up you name it! so they can have the advantage to do anything they want to do in the country they control and this goes to all of you and your country you live in) and still people do nothing about it, they just talk, talk, talk... just to forget about it later.
Assassin
25-09-2008, 04:45
BAHH!!! all the damn arrogance.... that noooo send him to prison.... wait! noooo send him to a mental hospital... or nooo it's wrong to torture them/kill them.... hold on... noooo they have human rights/they have family.... then tell me WHO THE HELL gave this monsters rights to make such horrible crimes and to get away with it? comong killing/torturing that's not a human thing... I know that but they did it with passion and I bet they enjoyed it every second of doing such devolish acts these ****ing monsters destroyers of society & peace and just to have them in prison. Dammit people wake up (GOD OPEN THEIR DAMN EYES) WE MUST get rid of this mother****ers, low-life, pests who are just here to create sadness and pain to families who have never done anything bad and this kind of shi-happens, so these bastards get to be in a prison/mental hospital for life and lives and probably didn't give a **** what they have doned and faked their guilt and some of them get the luck to get out of prison/mental hospital just to get free and create more violence, hatred, pain, and more sadness in this world which I like to still believe it is still filled with good people. These creatures are not need in this world!!! GOD just kill the ****ers enough of this garbage, the world is ****ed up already and it's getting worse or will get more worse in the new years to come, we need a change... ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.!
Were you raped or something?
You assume that all murderers/rapist/whatever are all some sort of hellspawn. Ever heard of second-degree murder? Not everyone who commits a serious crime is a bad person they just made a mistake. There ARE people who do some truly awful things but you know what, they get to spend the rest of their life in prison thinking about what they did.
Anyway, we're straying off-topic.
Blame that to the countries corrupt goverment, because I know they didn't gave a shi- for their people a long time ago and make them more stupid with the poor-quality stuff they offer (bad education, no jobs, crime, lie to their people/media cover-up you name it so they can have the advantage to do anything they want to do in the country they control and this goes to all of you and your country you live in) and still people do nothing about it they just talk, talk, talk just to forget about it later.
Oh, so it's actually the governments fault that people commit crimes. Not the inner hatred and evilness of the people. You don't seem like you're capable of forming a coherent argument here, you're just ranting about a bunch of random ****.
Emiel Regis
25-09-2008, 04:46
You're wrong Assassin, you point out that it's pointless to kill them, while it has been proven that it indeed has at least one point - maybe the most 'important' one - the cost.
The real question about capital punishment is do we agree on possible innocent people getting killed :|
Assassin
25-09-2008, 04:55
You're wrong Assassin, you point out that it's pointless to kill them, while it has been proven that it indeed has at least one point - maybe the most 'important' one - the cost.
I guess. Money shouldn't be the basis for killing a person imo no matter what.
(1.) Were you raped or something?
(2.) You assume that all murderers/rapist/whatever are all some sort of hellspawn. Ever heard of second-degree murder? Not everyone who commits a serious crime is a bad person they just made a mistake. There ARE people who do some truly awful things but you know what, they get to spend the rest of their life in prison thinking about what they did.
Anyway, we're straying off-topic.
(3.) Oh, so it's actually the governments fault that people commit crimes. Not the inner hatred and evilness of the people. You don't seem like you're capable of forming a coherent argument here, you're just ranting about a bunch of random ****.
1. Be more mature if you CAN sorry if not then, no I had a friend who's family member was murdered because he/she (won't metion name/info for respect to the person) saw the person's face who stole his/her wallet/purse/money whatever and the robber who turned killer decided to kill the person so no witnesses could identify him/her later.
2. What are you stupid? I have stated my feelings to eliminate those that only have murdered who knew what were about to do and the consequences later on or tortured innocent people to death... so it's a mistake what they have doned??? wow your ****ing sick and NOOO comong if someone stole money/purse/etc... and didn't kill noone alright take the damn money and let person live, BUT NO you don't kill them and I NEVER mentioned that those who commit low-crimes should be killed what are you HIGH? where do you see me say that? are you stupid to read? but they can go to jail and work for their food/shelter, taxpayers should not be the ones paying for their mistakes.
3. Do you know how to read?, that was a response to your innocent children shi- go back and read carefully and not replying fast and accussing me of random shi-.
Assassin
25-09-2008, 05:04
2. Can you read, that was a response to your innocent children shi- go back and read carefully and not replying fast and accussing me of random shi-.
Oh so context completely ****s with your moral compass?
GRIMMAH!!
25-09-2008, 05:04
The real question about capital punishment is do we agree on possible innocent people getting killed :|
indeed.
Oh so context completely ****s with your moral compass?
CAN YOU FUKING FAIL MORE? this what you posted and I posted.
You:
Because shooting innocent white children is more important than the innocent starving black children shooting other innocent starving black children.
Me:
HEY, there is no need to change subjects here, we are here talking about low-lifes killing people, not about race/innocent starving children.
Blame that to the countries corrupt goverment, because I know they didn't gave a shi- for their people a long time ago and make them more stupid with the poor-quality stuff they offer (bad education, no jobs, crime, lie to their people/media/goverment cover-up you name it! so they can have the advantage to do anything they want to do in the country they control and this goes to all of you and your country you live in) and still people do nothing about it, they just talk, talk, talk... just to forget about it later.
So in shorter words, I WISH I HAD THE FUKING POWER to help those who are crying for help/food/shelter/etc.. but I can't because this shi- is ****ed up and good people get killed for doing the right thing and in order to do that you must have the money to help, but nooo I was not born in a rich family and don't have the sources to do it, but if I could I would with all my hearth.
Assassin
25-09-2008, 05:26
CAN YOU FUKING FAIL MORE? this what you posted and I posted.
You:
Because shooting innocent white children is more important than the innocent starving black children shooting other innocent starving black children.
Me:
HEY, there is no need to change subjects here, we are here talking about low-lifes killing people, not about race/innocent starving children.
Blame that to the countries corrupt goverment, because I know they didn't gave a shi- for their people a long time ago and make them more stupid with the poor-quality stuff they offer (bad education, no jobs, crime, lie to their people/media/goverment cover-up you name it! so they can have the advantage to do anything they want to do in the country they control and this goes to all of you and your country you live in) and still people do nothing about it, they just talk, talk, talk... just to forget about it later.
So in shorter words, I WISH I HAD THE FUKING POWER to help those who are crying for help/food/shelter/etc.. but I can't because this shi- is ****ed up and good people get killed for doing the right thing and in order to do that you must have the money to do that, but no I was born in a rich family and don't have the sources to do it, but if I could I would with all my hearth.
You're missing my point.
You say that we should kill and torture people who commit crimes over here, oh but it's the government's fault those children/people are shooting each other over there?
You're missing my point.
(1.) You say that we should kill and torture people who commit crimes over here, oh but it's the *government's fault those children/people are starving to death and killing each other for food and the goverment sends them limited aid and if a group didn't recived a thing they will get food from someone who did recieved no matter what the cost*?
1. Yes (Not torture them just kill them, electric chair? injection?, what ever method the system of justice chooses) to those who did the crime and KNEW what were doing or those cases were crazy bastards torture people to death (some survive rarely).
*Fixed*, I hope that anwers your question.
Assassin
25-09-2008, 05:33
fixed, I hope that anwers your question.
Context of crime doesn't matter. Justice is supposed to be blind. Someone could be poor and starving over here too you know.
Context of crime doesn't matter. Justice is supposed to be blind. Someone could be poor and starving over here too you know.
Then the system has failed then, to help those in need.
ninja burger
25-09-2008, 05:47
this thread is turning into a piss-fest :|
this thread is turning into a piss-fest :|
GTFO Bugger, I mean Burger <3... nananah too late to say that mmm...??? He expressed his feelings and I respect that, I expressed myself too but not to be mad at each other so we are cool and didn't make such a big fuss like other people around here who are good at that.
Oh wow, I just realized Sven is a native speaker of English. All this time...
Vox Clamantis
25-09-2008, 05:58
Context of crime doesn't matter. Justice is supposed to be blind. Someone could be poor and starving over here too you know.
Uhm. It's pretty routine for context to determine conviction and sentencing. "Justice is blind" just means that the law applies to everyone equally, without preconception, not that every crime of a given type is equal. You can't just interpret every quote as broadly as you like without considering the intended meaning of the original speaker.
Well, unless you're engaging in typical internet bull****ting. But if you're doing that, you can really just say whatever the hell you want anyway.
~Gabriel
DevilDog
25-09-2008, 06:53
By the way, just wanted to throw this out there. Executions cost more than holding a prisoner for his entire life, at least in the US. You people fail to understand that, again at least in the US, the prison system is actually profitable. Not saying that I agree or disagree with executing prisoners, because frankly it doesn't matter what my position is. Just don't let your decision on this subject be based on something false. Like that it is cheaper to execute than hold for the duration of the prisoners life.
By the way, just wanted to throw this out there. Executions cost more than holding a prisoner for his entire life, at least in the US. You people fail to understand that, again at least in the US, the prison system is actually profitable. Not saying that I agree or disagree with executing prisoners, because frankly it doesn't matter what my position is. Just don't let your decision on this subject be based on something false. Like that it is cheaper to execute than hold for the duration of the prisoners life.That's because you're doing it wrong. Shoot em in the back of the head and be done with it.
Oh wow, I just realized Sven is a native speaker of English. All this time... <3
I think we should cut off the hands of thieves, **** the rapists, then cut their penises off, and hang anyone who murders. Also I think we should remove the judicial system and simply let the masses decide who is guilty. Could just bring suspects to the local market and let the people decide whether they should live or die.
[/Massive exaggeration]
Vox Clamantis
25-09-2008, 09:24
Oh wow, I just realized Sven is a native speaker of English. All this time...
Seems to be an American... :|
~Gabriel
Andrew Past
25-09-2008, 10:31
Guns are not exactly in the same category as knives and baseball bats, or even swords and spears. They make it too easy. They break down the barrier between the desire and the execution. And also, perhaps most terribly, the gun is so much harder to defend against. A kid going on a rampage with a sword might get stopped cold by a couple of gym teachers with hockey sticks and cricket bats. A kid with a gun...different story.
~Gabriel
Only if he's trained or practiced in how to use a firearm (which he was.) Now, he could train himself to kill with a knife, sword, bat, etc. and sure, he wouldn't be as potentially effective, but in a close quarters situation (like a class room,) a knife can be deadlier than a gun, let alone a sword or bat that extends range.
ninja burger
25-09-2008, 10:46
banning guns is a pretty controversial here , especially in the town I live in. Here, we're required by law to own a firearm O_0
CAN YOU FUKING FAIL MORE?
Get over yourself. If you don't like what someone posted then ignore them.
ignore Assassin (http://www.moviebattles.com/forums/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=358)
If I wasn't a moderator I could probably count on 1 hand who wasn't on my ignore list.
Also, don't circumvent the filter.
Abe, I would prefer cops gunning him down rather than taxpayers having to pay money to keep such low-lifes in jail. Too bad he shot himself (although he failed at killing himself immediately; hopefully he was in alot of pain).
Well, taxpayers have to pay for a lot of dumb **** anyway. One guy wouldn't make a difference.
I'd prefer to see his shower-r a p e video on YouTube instead of him shooting at a range and pretending to be 50 or whoever.
GoodOlBen
25-09-2008, 11:16
These guys shoot themselves in the head after seeing that they've done all in their power and there's no escape. There's no point in arguing what to do with them if we catch them when they'll kill themselves before we can.
Or wait! Let's kick his body and poke it with a stick! THAT WILL TEACH THEM NOT TO GO AROUND SHOOTING PEOPLE!
The thing is that Finnish schools are quite ideal except for the fact that the mandatory health checkups do not contain any psychological exams gaging for possible mental illness.
Another improvement that's well in our reach would be to increase the amount of teachers and decrease the size of classes. At the moment our schools have classes with 25-40 students each. A teacher will have a hard time getting to know them all well enough, the same with the students.
And yet another would be parental education seminars that prepare parents for all the stages in a child's path to adulthood. This way the parents could learn ways how to maintain contact with their offspring even all the way through adolescence and really adjust them to the modern world via teaching basic behaviour with the right approach and correct reasoning.
The changes would be easy to do with the appropriate funding but deciding on it is ****ing hard even if the whole country agreed on it, due to the sloth that is the modern democratic system.
So all in all, people are not born monsters, they are taught to become monsters. Passively or actively. To some extent, we all are responsible for Kauhajoki and Jokela.
Vox Clamantis
25-09-2008, 11:29
Only if he's trained or practiced in how to use a firearm (which he was.) Now, he could train himself to kill with a knife, sword, bat, etc. and sure, he wouldn't be as potentially effective, but in a close quarters situation (like a class room,) a knife can be deadlier than a gun, let alone a sword or bat that extends range.
Gotta disagree there, Andy. No matter how close, the handgun is worse. It's simply a matter of physics. A handgun is lightweight, requires no commitment of weight, and has superior lethality and range.
There's a reason the handgun is called the great equalizer. You don't need training or skill to be more deadly with a gun than the most highly trained close combatant can ever be with a sword, knife, or what have you.
~Gabriel
Gotta disagree there, Andy. No matter how close, the handgun is worse. It's simply a matter of physics. A handgun is lightweight, requires no commitment of weight, and has superior lethality and range.
There's a reason the handgun is called the great equalizer. You don't need training or skill to be more deadly with a gun than the most highly trained close combatant can ever be with a sword, knife, or what have you.
~Gabriel
A civilian defending against a melee weapon is just as impossible as defending against a gun.
It's not a matter of effectiveness. As for a suitable counter measure, I'm sure chaos and panic eroded those ideas real quick. Grabbing something to use as defense isn't easy when people are scrambling to get past you.
Vox Clamantis
25-09-2008, 11:48
A civilian defending against a melee weapon is just as impossible as defending against a gun.
It's not a matter of effectiveness. As for a suitable counter measure, I'm sure chaos and panic eroded those ideas real quick. Grabbing something to use as defense isn't easy when people are scrambling to get past you.
Then again, you can let anybody handle a sword without worrying that they're going to accidentally kill you, themselves, or anybody who happens to be within the effective range of the weapon. Guns are naturally more dangerous.
~Gabriel
cloudstrife
25-09-2008, 12:05
You're wrong Assassin, you point out that it's pointless to kill them, while it has been proven that it indeed has at least one point - maybe the most 'important' one - the cost.
The real question about capital punishment is do we agree on possible innocent people getting killed :|Of course it should only be done on crimes with a very clear suspect, like in this case. Cases where the murdered "has been caught" because of just one witness who was at certain distance obviously shouldnt be applied that kind of punishment, if we want to be 100% sure on only using it against criminals.
This case, for example, has no margin of error.
Then again, you can let anybody handle a sword without worrying that they're going to accidentally kill you, themselves, or anybody who happens to be within the effective range of the weapon. Guns are naturally more dangerous.
~Gabriel
Those are people without intent to kill though. But fatal accidents happen all the time despite being dangerous or not. With your reasoning you may as well remove anything that can cause any type of mortal wound.
Knives
Cars
Garbage Disposals
Animals
Plastic Bags
At what point do you draw the line? How many people have to suffocate in a plastic bag, or get caught up in a window blinds coord and choke to death?
"I didn't think I had to worry about him sticking his tongue in a light socket. But he did and killed himself and everyone that touched him. Those things are dangerous."
Human Life is very fragile. Anything and Everything can kill you. ESPECIALLY if someone is trying to purposely do it to you.
Removing the offending items isn't treating the problem. And anyone intent on killing will find a way to do so.
Guns are just singled out because of ease of use versus lethality.
I'm just putting forth a counter argument. I'm all for banning projectile weapons. If you want to kill be personal about it. ;)
Vox Clamantis
25-09-2008, 12:32
Guns are just singled out because of ease of use versus lethality.
Well...seems like we're in agreement, then. That's exactly what I was saying. ;)
~Gabriel
Well...seems like we're in agreement, then. That's exactly what I was saying. ;)
~Gabriel
Aye. Just pointing out that you CAN worry about some one accidentally killing you, themselves, or anyone in range with innocuous items. I do so every time I see my dimbulb neighbor use a lawnmower or Weed Cutter.
Vox Clamantis
25-09-2008, 12:48
Aye. Just pointing out that you CAN worry about some one accidentally killing you, themselves, or anyone in range with innocuous items. I do so every time I see my dimbulb neighbor use a lawnmower or Weed Cutter.
Ok, true. Gardening is scary business. My dog got loose one day at the park and started running amok. At one point while we were chasing her, she started barking playfully at a Mexican dude standing around with a weedwhacker, and I was convinced that he was going to freak out and decapitate the poor bitch. :(
~Gabriel
Oliver1799
25-09-2008, 13:05
Aye. Just pointing out that you CAN worry about some one accidentally killing you, themselves, or anyone in range with innocuous items. I do so every time I see my dimbulb neighbor use a lawnmower or Weed Cutter.
The difference is that guns are designed solely to kill. Cars, plastic bags, lawnmowers, etc. have innocent intended purposes, whereas there is no point to guns apart from killing things. I really don't understand why some people are so obsessed with their self-proclaimed 'right' to own guns. If you want to shoot guns at a range, why not just borrow the range's guns? Why do you have to take the gun home, where it is completely pointless unless you intend to kill someone or something with it? I am all for banning the owning of guns. They really are pointless in modern society.
To the people who argue that the death penalty should be applied in murder cases:
1. You argue that killing is wrong, and so should be punished with killing. You are a hypocrite. Why is it not OK for the murderer to take a life, but perfectly OK for the state to take a life? :rolleyes:
2. To refute the economic argument (it's cheaper/I don't want to waste my money keeping murderers alive in jail), the death penalty is actually more expensive than a life sentence. This is because, to be completely sure that the right person is executed, they are allowed quite a lot of appeals all at the taxpayer's expense, and while all of these are going on, the accused is housed in a maximum security jail, possibly for decades, at the taxpayer's expense. These appeals are necessary if you want to be absolutely certain that you are killing the right person.
The death penalty is a barbaric practice that has, fortunately, been outlawed in civilised countries.
I can assure you, if a kid was pissed off enough to do it, he'd find a way with or without guns.
Maybe. But there are no such things in countries where guns are not allowed.
TigerZeta
25-09-2008, 13:30
Only if he's trained or practiced in how to use a firearm (which he was.) Now, he could train himself to kill with a knife, sword, bat, etc. and sure, he wouldn't be as potentially effective, but in a close quarters situation (like a class room,) a knife can be deadlier than a gun, let alone a sword or bat that extends range.
...
He stormed a class where a test was being taken on Economics
9 female students, one male student, one male teacher were killed...He shot people as they were cowering in the ground due to fear execution-style and saying something along the lines he likes it when blood is flying around...
Wake up, a firearm would have been more suitable in any case.
Please don't pass around your craze for melee weapons and what-not to real life situations.
And some people using this thread as a means of expressing their personal views of politics and what-not is disgusting. I don't care if it's a troll or not. I damn well would expect to see infractions for one user.
The difference is that guns are designed solely to kill. Cars, plastic bags, lawnmowers, etc. have innocent intended purposes, whereas there is no point to guns apart from killing things. I really don't understand why some people are so obsessed with their self-proclaimed 'right' to own guns. If you want to shoot guns at a range, why not just borrow the range's guns? Why do you have to take the gun home, where it is completely pointless unless you intend to kill someone or something with it? I am all for banning the owning of guns. They really are pointless in modern society.
This is the only point I can really agree with. And hunting for sport should use the same rules. Enclosed hunting area with weapons gps tracked.
To the people who argue that the death penalty should be applied in murder cases:
1. You argue that killing is wrong, and so should be punished with killing. You are a hypocrite. Why is it not OK for the murderer to take a life, but perfectly OK for the state to take a life?
2. To refute the economic argument (it's cheaper/I don't want to waste my money keeping murderers alive in jail), the death penalty is actually more expensive than a life sentence. This is because, to be completely sure that the right person is executed, they are allowed quite a lot of appeals all at the taxpayer's expense, and while all of these are going on, the accused is housed in a maximum security jail, possibly for decades, at the taxpayer's expense. These appeals are necessary if you want to be absolutely certain that you are killing the right person.
The death penalty is a barbaric practice that has, fortunately, been outlawed in civilised countries.
Criminals should be picking our fruit. And doing the jobs that no one wants to do.
I damn well would expect to see infractions for one user.
It's to be expected from a thread like this. Viewer and Poster beware.
Victin Halcyon
25-09-2008, 13:36
The difference is that guns are designed solely to kill. Cars, plastic bags, lawnmowers, etc. have innocent intended purposes, whereas there is no point to guns apart from killing things. I really don't understand why some people are so obsessed with their self-proclaimed 'right' to own guns. If you want to shoot guns at a range, why not just borrow the range's guns? Why do you have to take the gun home, where it is completely pointless unless you intend to kill someone or something with it? I am all for banning the owning of guns. They really are pointless in modern society.
To the people who argue that the death penalty should be applied in murder cases:
1. You argue that killing is wrong, and so should be punished with killing. You are a hypocrite. Why is it not OK for the murderer to take a life, but perfectly OK for the state to take a life? :rolleyes:
2. To refute the economic argument (it's cheaper/I don't want to waste my money keeping murderers alive in jail), the death penalty is actually more expensive than a life sentence. This is because, to be completely sure that the right person is executed, they are allowed quite a lot of appeals all at the taxpayer's expense, and while all of these are going on, the accused is housed in a maximum security jail, possibly for decades, at the taxpayer's expense. These appeals are necessary if you want to be absolutely certain that you are killing the right person.
The death penalty is a barbaric practice that has, fortunately, been outlawed in civilised countries.
This is the man we should all be paying attention to.
Criminals should be picking our fruit. And doing the jobs that no one wants to do.
Yeh man and poor students will do what? Cleaning toilets? :rolleyes:
Btw there was a try in our country. Reporter of one newspapers bought an airsoft MP5 and put it in the bag and it was put in the bag the way, that all people could see that he has got a gun.
He got into three schools. With no harm. I am getting rly worried when some maniac will do the same on our school, practicly idiotic school in secure things too.
RIP victims. :/
TigerZeta
25-09-2008, 14:35
^ Above newspaper is clearly thirsting for sensationalism. Is that somehow surprising, really?
Jack of Blades
25-09-2008, 14:42
If world was filled with hippies but lose the weed,narcotics and stuff like that it be heaven.(i have a big dislike for such things showing youre weakness).
It's pointless. Will torturing this person undo what they did? No. Will killing this person make you feel better? No.
Why wouldn't it make you feel better? I'm sure the feeling of justice served is highly subjective; some people would be happy having the government process him but others might want to extract justice personally.
Assassin
25-09-2008, 16:47
Why wouldn't it make you feel better? I'm sure the feeling of justice served is highly subjective; some people would be happy having the government process him but others might want to extract justice personally.
Because nothing will make them feel better about it. That's not the purpose of justice.
Then what is? Nothing will make them feel better about the loss, but there's no reason they can't satisfy their desire for justice.
Oliver1799
25-09-2008, 19:18
Then what is? Nothing will make them feel better about the loss, but there's no reason they can't satisfy their desire for justice.
Even if the victim's family would feel better torturing the criminal, that doesn't mean that it's right. Basing a modern justice system, which prizes itself on maintaining fair trials, on how the victim's relatives feel is ridiculous. Even medieval judges realised that using the victim's family as a gauge of how much punishment should be dealt out was inherently unfair and biased. Much better and more civilised to leave this sort of thing to the professionals, who are trained to be impartial and fair when deciding the fate of a criminal.
*Awaits the onslaught of Daily Mail readers who are outraged at the notion that suspects should be allowed certain human rights, such as a fair trial.*
Outlaw bullets, not guns!
Jack of Blades
25-09-2008, 20:01
Outlaw bullets, not guns!
So if now you just run around with rifles wacking people?Get a sword so you can cut people too.
jaateloauto
25-09-2008, 20:20
Guns kill. I better start skipping some classes.
So if now you just run around with rifles wacking people?Get a sword so you can cut people too.
Better yet, put confetti in the gun and shoot that at people so they can't see the bayonet on the end!
Oliver1799
25-09-2008, 20:37
Outlaw bullets, not guns!
Why? What difference would that make? Why would you want a gun without bullets?
cloudstrife
25-09-2008, 20:55
*Awaits the onslaught of Daily Mail readers who are outraged at the notion that suspects should be allowed certain human rights, such as a fair trial.*
To be honest, they lost all human rights when they took away the right to live from someone else. They turn into animals... and you know how human beings treat wild animals that can't be controlled.
Jack of Blades
25-09-2008, 21:02
Better yet, put confetti in the gun and shoot that at people so they can't see the bayonet on the end!
Hmmm its a good idea but those **** up youre teeth and i just dont realy fancy them.*Yes this is an attempt to impress you with my leet whatyamacallimrus skills*
What are you talking about? Bayonets are healthy for teeth! They're recommended by 9 out of 10 dentists!
Oliver1799
25-09-2008, 21:37
To be honest, they lost all human rights when they took away the right to live from someone else. They turn into animals... and you know how human beings treat wild animals that can't be controlled.
It's lucky that the justice systems of western countries got rid of this kind of backwards thinking back in the medieval period. :rolleyes:
I find it funny that the type of person who believes this drivel also tends to believe in the sanctity of human life. Hypocrites ftl. :confused:
^ Above newspaper is clearly thirsting for sensationalism. Is that somehow surprising, really?
Yeh TZ.
But it truly shows, how czech schools sucks.
ninja burger
25-09-2008, 22:00
we should just take advice from Dave Chapelle and not ban guns or bullets, but makes bullets super super expensive :p
Golden Mando Bro
25-09-2008, 22:04
Yeah, because everyone who commits a crime is a horrible horrible person and impossible to rehabilitate.
If you're going to have such a narrow view of the world, atleast keep it to yourself.
Rehabilitate someone who went on a school shooting. Are you an idiot? Honestly. This is what democrats get you, lol 10 murders, must send 2 mental hospital. if you go to a school and shoot people who cant fight back, CHILDREN, mind you. You deserve a horrible death.
Jack of Blades
25-09-2008, 22:45
What are you talking about? Bayonets are healthy for teeth! They're recommended by 9 out of 10 dentists!
:cry:
.......................
Mr_Oujamaflip
25-09-2008, 23:00
What if shooting ranges owned the guns? Wouldnt you be able to shoot them and have fun? Of course you wouldnt be able to sleep with your gun at nights, but... it could actually work.
I like this idea.
Well, I dunno the laws in Finland or the US but in England you need a safe attached to a main wall with at least 8 1/2 inch bolts with two locks (not sure about the locks). Keys must be on the licenseholder at all times (unless he's in the house) and each safe can hold a maximum of three weapons for a standard firearms license.
The shotguns (only covered by the basic firearms license) can be pump, over-under or semi-automatic but can have a maximum of 3 rounds in the magazine as well as one in the chamber (I think, might be 2 in the magazine and 1 in the chamber). Weapons can be fired under the supervision of the licenseholder but only on land where you are legally allowed to shoot or your own property. For example shooting ranges or you have a really big garden. Certain farms allow people to shoot pidgeons and other birds because they eat their crops.
The full license allows for a single shot bolt action rifle, I don't know what caliburs, I doubt .50 or .30 are allowed but .303 is definately. You can up the number of shotgun rounds to 8 and rifle magazines is 20 (I think).
Supressors are legal, mostly used for air rifles though so if you're firing in your garden you don't freak out your neighbours. Handguns are not allowed at all unless they're air pistols.
Air guns can be bought over the counter by people over 18. If a pistol is over 6ft-lbs in power or a rifle over 12ft-lbs they're considered full firearms.
These laws are pretty safe. You don't often hear of shootings in England unless it's (funnily enough) by an air rifle fired by a kid who got his hands on it. If I remember correctly someone killed a baby by shooting it in the head with an over-charged rifle. Parents fault.
What I'm getting at is, so long as the weapons are secure enough and are policed well enough, a total ban isn't necessary.
Assassin
25-09-2008, 23:35
Rehabilitate someone who went on a school shooting. Are you an idiot? Honestly. This is what democrats get you, lol 10 murders, must send 2 mental hospital. if you go to a school and shoot people who cant fight back, CHILDREN, mind you. You deserve a horrible death.
Maybe we can't do anything about the guy that did the shooting, but we could find out why he did it and maybe prevent future incidents from occuring, rather than just killing him out of rage and waiting for the next event to happen so we can do the same to the next person.
we should just take advice from Dave Chapelle and not ban guns or bullets, but makes bullets super super expensive :p
*Chris Rock*
I like this idea.
Well, I dunno the laws in Finland or the US but in England you need a safe attached to a main wall with at least 8 1/2 inch bolts with two locks (not sure about the locks). Keys must be on the licenseholder at all times (unless he's in the house) and each safe can hold a maximum of three weapons for a standard firearms license.
The shotguns (only covered by the basic firearms license) can be pump, over-under or semi-automatic but can have a maximum of 3 rounds in the magazine as well as one in the chamber (I think, might be 2 in the magazine and 1 in the chamber). Weapons can be fired under the supervision of the licenseholder but only on land where you are legally allowed to shoot or your own property. For example shooting ranges or you have a really big garden. Certain farms allow people to shoot pidgeons and other birds because they eat their crops.
The full license allows for a single shot bolt action rifle, I don't know what caliburs, I doubt .50 or .30 are allowed but .303 is definately. You can up the number of shotgun rounds to 8 and rifle magazines is 20 (I think).
Supressors are legal, mostly used for air rifles though so if you're firing in your garden you don't freak out your neighbours. Handguns are not allowed at all unless they're air pistols.
Air guns can be bought over the counter by people over 18. If a pistol is over 6ft-lbs in power or a rifle over 12ft-lbs they're considered full firearms.
These laws are pretty safe. You don't often hear of shootings in England unless it's (funnily enough) by an air rifle fired by a kid who got his hands on it. If I remember correctly someone killed a baby by shooting it in the head with an over-charged rifle. Parents fault.
What I'm getting at is, so long as the weapons are secure enough and are policed well enough, a total ban isn't necessary.
I don't remember where I heard it but I remember hearing there were a lot of stabbings in England. Is this true or am I just selectively remembering?
Oliver1799
26-09-2008, 00:56
Rehabilitate someone who went on a school shooting. Are you an idiot? Honestly. This is what democrats get you, lol 10 murders, must send 2 mental hospital. if you go to a school and shoot people who cant fight back, CHILDREN, mind you. You deserve a horrible death.
Can't you see how hypocritical it is to argue that the punishment for killing someone should be killing someone? It's the equivalent of being a parent and bringing up your child by punishing it with whatever naughty behaviour it commits. If he steals something, then just steal something of his. If he gets into a fight at school, get into a fight with him. If he lies to you then just lie back to him. Do you not think that this might give the child a bad example rather than teach him any sort of lesson?
Honestly, you make me glad I'm not from America, where people like you are taken seriously. There are, of course, people in Britain who think like you, but luckily their opinions are in a minority, and they are generally dismissed as the backwards, reactionary, stupid people that they so clearly are.
Honestly, you make me glad I'm not from America, where people like you are taken seriously. There are, of course, people in Britain who think like you, but luckily their opinions are in a minority, and they are generally dismissed as the backwards, reactionary, stupid people that they so clearly are.
And now GMB represents the majority of the United States, does he?
And now GMB represents the majority of the United States, does he?
Not much. In Europe there are some simplistic people who have the same Middle-Age barbaric opinions. But as Oliver says, they're a minority.
There tends to be more people in the United States who think like that.
Sorry if it sounds generalizing. Well, I would be glad if I were wrong, but I doubt I am, really.
I can tell you that 100% eye-for-eye is nowhere near the majority view. Most people tend to think that the punishment should be on the same level as the crime - community service for petty theft, but not repossession of a thief's sofa for petty theft.
Oliver1799
26-09-2008, 01:56
And now GMB represents the majority of the United States, does he?
I didn't say that. I said that people with views such as his were taken seriously in the US. Whether or not he represents a majority wasn't discussed and is largely irrelevant to my point.
Reading comprehension: 3/10 (I gave you one point for recognising that I was talking about GMB, one for realising I was talking about the US and one out of pity). ;)
You might not have said it, but the statement reads like you implied it.
FYI, my teacher gave me full points on reading comprehension when I did a worksheet after reading Junie B. Jones. So, good game, please leave because you have obviously been beaten. You get a 1/10 for living. One point because you can type.
That's all I have to say about that...
Assassin
26-09-2008, 02:51
FYI, my teacher gave me full points on reading comprehension when I did a worksheet after reading Junie B. Jones.
:rolleyes:
You don't know how stupid that statement is. It'd be like if someone called you stupid and you said "I got 100% on my motha ****ing math test the other day".
I agree entirely, I enjoy firing rifles and shotguns at shooting ranges or clay pidgeons or whatever, and my dad owns a rifle and three shotguns. Just because it was a gun that was used does not necessarily mean they should be banned. The kid coulda taken ****ing samurai lessons or some **** and gone around with a sword or something. Or, household things, knives, hell even a drill would do the job, wanna ban drills?
Guns are tools, yes, they're designed to kill people, but it's the person using them that is the killer, not the gun.
My red card carrying friends tried to use that argument, and it just won't fly.
Heh, run into a school with hundreds of physically fit students and you'll get 2 or three with a sword MAYBE. You would get jumped and disarmed in minutes, not to mention swords by their nature, cannot be concealed.
Run into the same school with a gun, and easily you can take dozens.
Yes, swords are tools for killing people, but so are guns. The difference is I need 3 days of practice to shoot someone,(if that), but I need months of dedicated practice with a sword.
savingpvtgeorge36
26-09-2008, 03:54
Yes, swords are tools for killing people, but so are guns. The difference is I need 3 days of practice to shoot someone,(if that), but I need months of dedicated practice with a sword.
If you dont believe his opinion just look back in human history. Theres a reason armies moved to firearms over melee weapons, the lethal, have good range, and its alot easier to train an army of militia to fire there guns than to train them with the use of a spear.
Pada V4.5
26-09-2008, 08:50
In our country somebody tried to this with a knife, several years back. He failed to kill anybody. If he would have a gun, probably many would have died.
To be honest, they lost all human rights when they took away the right to live from someone else. They turn into animals... and you know how human beings treat wild animals that can't be controlled.
Innocent until proven guilty. You can't be sure they are actually killers unless you have a fair trial.
TigerZeta
26-09-2008, 11:24
...
I could hit a target size of a human 200 meters away in less than an hour I actually began shooting with my assault rifle. Granted, we had few lectures about not breathing etc, but day would be MORE than enough
And so would most (if not all) Finnish conscripts.
So no, learning to shoot with a pistol doesn't take three, two, or even one day.
There's nothing to shooting a pistol except for loading the magazine, making sure the safety is off, and point and shoot, frankly.
Oliver1799
26-09-2008, 11:33
You might not have said it, but the statement reads like you implied it.
FYI, my teacher gave me full points on reading comprehension when I did a worksheet after reading Junie B. Jones.
Protip: when you reach puberty, reading comprehension gets a bit harder. For example, marks will be taken off if you get confused about the differences between basic concepts such as "majority" and "taken seriously".
:rolleyes:
You don't know how stupid that statement is. It'd be like if someone called you stupid and you said "I got 100% on my motha ****ing math test the other day".
Rofl. It's more like someone attempting a spelling test and getting only 3 out of 10 correct, and then saying, "butt my tEacher given to me full marx On my Inglish spellin test lst wk!!!!!11111!11!212!2"12!!!"
Vox Clamantis
26-09-2008, 12:20
Rofl. It's more like someone attempting a spelling test and getting only 3 out of 10 correct, and then saying, "butt my tEacher given to me full marx On my Inglish spellin test lst wk!!!!!11111!11!212!2"12!!!"
Wow, what happened to this thread?
:confused:
~Gabriel
Why? What difference would that make? Why would you want a gun without bullets?
..........
Pada V4.5
26-09-2008, 15:21
Why? What difference would that make? Why would you want a gun without bullets?
..........
Wow, what happened to this thread?
:confused:
~Gabriel
I tried to turn it to the lulz but it apparently epic failed.
No one noticed that I couldn't possibly be serious (Does that fall under reading comprehension?)...
Mr_Oujamaflip
26-09-2008, 20:19
I don't remember where I heard it but I remember hearing there were a lot of stabbings in England. Is this true or am I just selectively remembering?
Yep, tons in London right now, that's why I reckon if he didn't have a gun he'd use a knife, obviously wouldn't be as efficient but the tight gun laws in England show that where there's a will there's a way.
Jack the Ripper 2: I'm Back, Baby
Also, I hate school shootings. My school is pretty safe, much safer than almost every school out there, but I always get a teensy bit ancy when I hear about a school shooting.
My red card carrying friends tried to use that argument, and it just won't fly.
Heh, run into a school with hundreds of physically fit students and you'll get 2 or three with a sword MAYBE. You would get jumped and disarmed in minutes, not to mention swords by their nature, cannot be concealed.
Run into the same school with a gun, and easily you can take dozens.
Yes, swords are tools for killing people, but so are guns. The difference is I need 3 days of practice to shoot someone,(if that), but I need months of dedicated practice with a sword.
Hahahaha, yeah, umm swords dont run out of ammo there buddy. I'd take a sword over a gun, lock everyone in the building chase em around into corners and viciously massacre them and cut them into bits, sorry that doesnt take practice it takes ramming a sword hard enough into someone to make them ****ing die and bleed everywhere. Its not like your doing a sword duel, you dont need practice.
And if people get close and try to jump you, do you know how easy it would be to spin around and cut their throat?
Think before making statements k thx bye.
*leaves thread*
Hint: It'd be harder than you think without practice. And the moment there's two people you're ****ed. Especially when one grabs a fire extinguisher.
Vox Clamantis
26-09-2008, 22:39
Hahahaha, yeah, umm swords dont run out of ammo there buddy. I'd take a sword over a gun, lock everyone in the building chase em around into corners and viciously massacre them and cut them into bits, sorry that doesnt take practice it takes ramming a sword hard enough into someone to make them ****ing die and bleed everywhere. Its not like your doing a sword duel, you dont need practice.
And if people get close and try to jump you, do you know how easy it would be to spin around and cut their throat?
Think before making statements k thx bye.
*leaves thread*
:rolleyes:
English fails me.
SVPPRIME STVLTILOQVIVM
CVRATE VT VALEATVS
Oliver1799
26-09-2008, 22:49
Hahahaha, yeah, umm swords dont run out of ammo there buddy. I'd take a sword over a gun, lock everyone in the building chase em around into corners and viciously massacre them and cut them into bits, sorry that doesnt take practice it takes ramming a sword hard enough into someone to make them ****ing die and bleed everywhere. Its not like your doing a sword duel, you dont need practice.
And if people get close and try to jump you, do you know how easy it would be to spin around and cut their throat?
Think before making statements k thx bye.
*leaves thread*
:rolleyes:
It's easy when you say it...
I think I would use a paperclip. I'd just lock all the doors of the school without anyone being able to unlock them, then I would straighten it out and chase down each person individually and ram it into their throats with enough force to cut their jugular. If people tried to jump me, do you know how easy it would be to spin around and paperclip them in the heart?
Jack of Blades
26-09-2008, 22:51
So this thread is a good place to see how nuts are our community is.
So this thread is a good place to see how nuts are our community is.
NO U NUTS LOLEOL
But yeah, agreed.
Jack of Blades
26-09-2008, 23:12
I like that resemble those but have chocolate in between them and arent that hard(not exacly chocolate like realy fat milk)
You know Oliver, you really should work on how you present your opinions.
People who may otherwise agree with you could be somewhat put off.
cloudstrife
26-09-2008, 23:24
to the ones saying: with a sword he could have done pretty much the same... Just no
Hell, one desk would be enough to make his sword immobilized. imagine 20 students going to him using desks as shields. if he tried to atatck any of them, the sword would cut a part of the desk, but be stuck on it.
Massacre fail.
I like that resemble those but have chocolate in between them and arent that hard(not exacly chocolate like realy fat milk)
Ferrero Roche?
Totally agree with Meister, there.
Jack of Blades
26-09-2008, 23:34
Ferrero Roche?
Totally agree with Meister, there.
Dou i shoudent eat so many couz 2 days of exersice just dont cut it.
I have no idea what those are, but holy fffffffffffff I love Ferrero Roche.
Jack of Blades
26-09-2008, 23:41
Well i guess were even on this one since i dont know what Ferrero Roche is lol.
You could get easily caught with a sword, then get imprisoned for life.
And how would you kill yourself after killing people? It's not like you would be prepared to commit such a horrible suicide.
Anyway, that whole "sword > gun" thing is a joke. I'd rather talk about Ferrero Rochers.
You know, if these guys really wanted to be efficient they could try pumping toxic gas into the ventilation system, or something else equally lethal. I can hardly see a sword wielding maniac proving that kind of deadly efficiency.
Well, it's not like there haven't been plenty of knife massacres. They seem to happen more in Asia, like that one where the dude killed 5 police officers with a knife (and wounded 4 more), he also killed a security guard too, I think.
Although the main disadvantage for the perpetrator is that they're more likely to be caught.
cloudstrife
27-09-2008, 01:25
Well, it's not like there haven't been plenty of knife massacres. They seem to happen more in Asia, like that one where the dude killed 5 police officers with a knife (and wounded 4 more), he also killed a security guard too, I think.
I have seen asian policemen armed with nitesticks run away from a guy with a little knife. So yeah, they are not very efficient.
I think it was japanese cops. Then again, I saw another one (asian, but probably not japanese) jumping from one window to the other, headshooting the guy that had an hostage. it was quite the action he did there.
Oliver1799
27-09-2008, 01:45
You know Oliver, you really should work on how you present your opinions.
People who may otherwise agree with you could be somewhat put off.
You assume that I care whether people agree with me or not.
To be honest, if someone is persuaded by my reason and argument but put off by something as trivial as my presentation then they don't deserve to belong to the elite club of people who agree with me.
Hahahaha, yeah, umm swords dont run out of ammo there buddy. I'd take a sword over a gun, lock everyone in the building chase em around into corners and viciously massacre them and cut them into bits, sorry that doesnt take practice it takes ramming a sword hard enough into someone to make them ****ing die and bleed everywhere. Its not like your doing a sword duel, you dont need practice.
And if people get close and try to jump you, do you know how easy it would be to spin around and cut their throat?
Think before making statements k thx bye.
*leaves thread*
Wow....
I just spend 30 minutes trying to come up with a response to this.
But the best one is clearly...
You, sir, are a ****ing dumbass.
Russian_Spy_Porque
27-09-2008, 06:50
Wow....
I just spend 30 minutes trying to come up with a response to this.
But the best one is clearly...
You, sir, are a ****ing dumbass.
Think of it this way, although totally retarded, it made my day by making me laugh at the failure of it
ninja burger
27-09-2008, 07:39
I'd take my fists over a gun, lock everyone in the building chase em around into corners and viciously massacre them and chew them into bits, sorry that doesnt take practice it takes ramming a fist hard enough into someone to make them ****ing die and bleed everywhere. Its not like your doing a professional wrestling match, you dont need practice.
...wat
Hahahaha, yeah, umm bare handed I dont run out of ammo there buddy. I'd take my fists over a gun, lock everyone in the building chase em around into corners and viciously massacre them and chew them into bits, sorry that doesnt take practice it takes ramming a fist hard enough into someone to make them ****ing die and bleed everywhere. Its not like your doing a professional wrestling match, you dont need practice.
And if people get close and try to jump you, do you know how easy it would be to spin around and twist their neck?
Think before making statements k thx bye.
*leaves thread*
...wat
Russian_Spy_Porque
27-09-2008, 08:52
...wat
...wat
...wat
...wat
Jango-Shade
27-09-2008, 09:16
In my honest opinion media in Finland sucks, and so does some people. There are always those curious bricks who are buying the magazines just to read how 11 people died. I don't know if it makes them happy or why its so "exicting" to read about massacre like this...
"If people don't die then nothing interesting will really happen. People need to die so life can be more interesting. These people that die in the shootings are simply decided by fate to die so us real people can be entertained."
I just want to confirm Ferrero Rocher are awesome.
And media everywhere sucks, it's not just Finland.
GoodOlBen
27-09-2008, 12:59
I love how the discussion has boiled down to what would be the best method to perform a school massacre. Keep brainstorming, kids!
I promise I'll execute the best plan. :rolleyes:
It all comes down to morality, either the one you yourself possess, or the one enforced by fear. Fear of reprisal. Some people will never know which morality they really belong unless faced with that 'really bad day'.
Theres also quite a different psycological difference in killing someone with a gun, or with a bladed weapon. It shortest of explanations, you will feel the 'weight' of your actions with a knife much sooner then something quite impersonal as with a gun.
The difference really shows with the accidental cases of a knife or gun injury/death (even though the weapon was drawn, and primairely used for threats), and the psycological reports written later.
When weapons are outlawed, it simply makes it slightly more difficult to perform, but who is detirmined to kill will regardless always find a way. Just look at the weapons crafted from everyday objects in prisons with the most vicious people. They even made a crossbow from paper and the elastic from his pants, to kill one of the guards(I kid you not).
ninja burger
27-09-2008, 14:42
I just want to confirm Ferrero Rocher are awesome.
And media everywhere sucks, it's not just Finland.
oohhh yea Ferrero Rocher is delicious.
and yea, the media is always obsessed with death, ****, murder, crime, political scandals, or anything else out of the ordinary. It's just what people like to see I guess.
Personally, I rarely watch the news anymore because of all that crap >_<
"If people don't die then nothing interesting will really happen. People need to die so life can be more interesting. These people that die in the shootings are simply decided by fate to die so us real people can be entertained."
yah basically.. I like to think of it as a more civilized way of having Colosseum entertainment :x
edit: and the best way to massacre a school is blatantly obvious: kamehameha wave
Jack of Blades
27-09-2008, 14:43
I love how the discussion has boiled down to what would be the best method to perform a school massacre. Keep brainstorming, kids!
I promise I'll execute the best plan. :rolleyes:
Ever heard of flame thrower or a minigun?
Hahahaha, yeah, umm swords dont run out of ammo there buddy. I'd take a sword over a gun, lock everyone in the building chase em around into corners and viciously massacre them and cut them into bits, sorry that doesnt take practice it takes ramming a sword hard enough into someone to make them ****ing die and bleed everywhere. Its not like your doing a sword duel, you dont need practice.
And if people get close and try to jump you, do you know how easy it would be to spin around and cut their throat?
Think before making statements k thx bye.
*leaves thread*
You bring your sword i will bring a gun and then lets see who wins : D
Not to mention that it would be hard to keep hostages under control with a sword, as it has no range.
lol@ agent btw
WorldsLargestIpod
27-09-2008, 15:29
1) One misconception is that nationalism requires that one's country be the best in order to love it, this is especially prominent in my own country. This is in many ways selfish, in the case of Finland, i don't think people like ben love Finland because it is the best. [Although ben would make a case to the contrary] they love Finland because it's their country. [one of the problems with world government is that supernationalists disregard this fact]
2) A country that doesn't permit firearms is not civilized therefore, the only thing that can be guaranteed from such a country is that they're heavily urban mixed areas have a very lucrative black market in weapons In my own country the safest places against crime are usually the rural/suburban areas where every john smith owns a gun. Some countries don't suffer from gun crime because their markets do not have to deal with large numbers of immigration, impoverished racial minorities, and urban ghettos. Another factor that contributes to low levels of european crime [relatively speaking] is the fact that their population is graying, demographically heavier levels of older people in the population correspond to lower levels of crime.
3) On the topic of gun shootings, the best [and coolest] solution by far is to let teachers carry their own guns. They're useful against homicidal maniacs as well as that punk in class who never does his homework.
Not to mention that it would be hard to keep hostages under control with a sword, as it has no range.
lol@ agent btw
Use Saber Throw
GoodOlBen
27-09-2008, 15:34
Ever heard of flame thrower or a minigun?
I'm listening. :p
TigerZeta
27-09-2008, 15:55
I'm listening. :p
You *do* realize that the Finnish police is supposedly "observing" the internet more accurately for few months now. I bet this thread would have dozens of keywords to attract them if they truly were looking xP
Pada V4.5
27-09-2008, 16:08
Any fixed date Ben? Remember that you have to take some vids before you go on the massacre. It would be nice to see you shooting, acting like the bad dude, and telling that your angry at everybody.
Edit: And dont forget to tell that you want to out do, and admire the Columbine shooting.
And say it on 4chan. They love that stuff.
I fail to see how gun posession laws determine how civilised a country is though. Also the only reason it's safer in rural areas is lower population density = less criminals close to you.
Jack of Blades
27-09-2008, 18:20
I'm listening. :p
Well if you actuly have the knowledge to take apart a minigun im sure the parts woud be easy to get in lol but they you have to put it back in one piece which coud get messy.Call 1-800 Take apart my minigun.:p
Vox Clamantis
27-09-2008, 18:21
And say it on 4chan. They love that stuff.
I fail to see how gun posession laws determine how civilised a country is though. Also the only reason it's safer in rural areas is lower population density = less criminals close to you.
Somebody is always claiming to be more civilized. The Chinese did/do it, the Japanese did/do it, the English did/do it, the Americans did/do it, the Vikings did it, the miscellaneous European trance-loving countries do it...and so on.
Since gods are nothing but glorified imaginary friends, there's nobody around to answer for sure who's civilized and who's not. Make up your own mind, and that's the end of it.
~Gabriel
Golden Mando Bro
27-09-2008, 18:44
And say it on 4chan. They love that stuff.
I fail to see how gun posession laws determine how civilised a country is though. Also the only reason it's safer in rural areas is lower population density = less criminals close to you.
Wrong tbh, the rural areas really would be the place you want to rob, its spread out, not many cops, no one sees it coming. The only problem IS every john smith has a gun, I know, i live in one of those rural areas, New Hampshire, USA ftl.
Russian_Spy_Porque
27-09-2008, 20:19
Any fixed date Ben? Remember that you have to take some vids before you go on the massacre. It would be nice to see you shooting, acting like the bad dude, and telling that your angry at everybody.
Edit: And dont forget to tell that you want to out do, and admire the Columbine shooting.
Hell NO!
He can't go do this until he finishes spam wars! Although, think about it, for the grand final of spam wars would be the shooting. It would be like him doing order 66 :D That would be a very nice ending to the series...and the creator for that matter... DO IT
Pada V4.5
27-09-2008, 20:20
Wrong tbh, the rural areas really would be the place you want to rob, its spread out, not many cops, no one sees it coming. The only problem IS every john smith has a gun, I know, i live in one of those rural areas, New Hampshire, USA ftl.No the problem is, there is nothing worth to rob!
the best way to massacre a school is blatantly obvious: kamehameha wave
Ummmmm...Spirit Bomb?
Let's not screw with the subject please. It is sad enough as it is. Things like this are not to be joked about, find something else please.
Have a little respect for those who lost their lifes, rather than making jokes about how to do it.
Golden Mando Bro
27-09-2008, 22:46
Well in the other topic about the mod getting lolheadstabbed, we r makin jokes.
You bring your sword i will bring a gun and then lets see who wins : D
Kay, you pick teh school.
Vox Clamantis
27-09-2008, 23:14
Let's not screw with the subject please. It is sad enough as it is. Things like this are not to be joked about, find something else please.
Have a little respect for those who lost their lifes, rather than making jokes about how to do it.
Respecting something has nothing to do with cracking jokes about it. My uncles tell fart jokes at funerals.
Of course, anyone who's ever been to a wake knows how that goes. ;)
~Gabriel
Kay, you pick teh school.
So you two are going for the high score? I thought you just wanted to kill each other.
Jack of Blades
28-09-2008, 01:01
Ummmmm...Spirit Bomb?
But revenge death ball has a cooler name :|
So you two are going for the high score? I thought you just wanted to kill each other.
We do that AFTER we get the highscore.
Btw we need video evidence, interested in the camera man job?
Russian_Spy_Porque
28-09-2008, 19:06
Count me in I will film it all and once you achieve your over 9000 score and attack each other i will make sure you both are dead. I will make sure the video is being broadcasted live.
Hhahaha alright sweet deal! We've got this sorted out LETS GET TO IT!
Pada V4.5
28-09-2008, 20:07
Could you tell us where? So we can avoid it, and no one from MB2 is harmed.
Alright fair enough, if at all possible id like to setup Thorn Horn so hes "coincidentally" in the school at the time...Who wants to help?
Russian_Spy_Porque
29-09-2008, 06:17
Could you tell us where? So we can avoid it, and no one from MB2 is harmed.
pff fool , we are actually selling the VIP tickets for people to go see massacrer live and you want to avoid it? Come on we need the cash so we can get the ammo!
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