Creation - what is it good for?

[Riles Lek]

Although the topic title might suggest that the thread takes a common user's "omfg check out my video" instead of checking the VIDEO THREAD approach.... It is not.


Recently a question entered my mind. It was created when certain people said something.


Why do something if no use comes from it?

My answer: To create. To enjoy yourself. To do something you like. To express yourself.

A friend's answer: No. If there's nothing in it for me, why do it?



.... My intent, as I was.. Between phlegmatic and snappish... was to make a deep post explaining what, why and how this happened, but I chose not to. Instead, I shortly ask you...


What is your answer?

[FrenchFry]

Your friends retarded. Why do anything then? Mostly everything isnt fun, and if he doesn't do the actual fun stuff because there's nothing in it for him then he/she is dumb.

[Tenken]

The answer is simply to do something. Most things you do in your life don't yield any real rewards, indeed considering death nothing actually yields a real reward because you can't take it with you once you're gone.

So in short, your friend is a tool.

[Abe]

Creation - what is it good for?
Absolutely nothing!

[Keshire]

I need stimulus. Otherwise I'd die from boredom.

[Oliver1799]

There are two main responses:

1. Doing things that we don't need to do (art, music, theatre, cinema, anything cultural) is what makes us human. Imagine a world without any sort of culture; no television, no books, no computer games, etc. We would just be robots, carrying out the necessary tasks over and over again in order to prolong our lives. But what would be the point of prolonging our lives in this situation? To what end if not culture?

2. The other way of looking at this is by arguing that your friend's assumption that anyone does anything that is of no use or value to them is incorrect. Consider the gains you make by creating something: a sense of achievement; the admiration of others; something pretty to look at; etc. You haven't done something for no reason, you've done something for your own personal gain: just because the gains aren't as immediate or obvious as the personal gain you make from eating food doesn't mean that you didn't do it for selfish motives. In this argument, nobody does anything that doesn't benefit them in some way, and so your question is moot.

The common objection to this is that some people give up their lives to save others' lives, but it seems quite easy to construe some selfish motive for this act as well, e.g. people will remember you, you will gain immortality by being noted down in the history books, a sense of honour that dying for a good cause can bring you in your last moments, etc.

[Keshire]

There are two main responses:

1. Doing things that we don't need to do (art, music, theatre, cinema, anything cultural) is what makes us human. Imagine a world without any sort of culture; no television, no books, no computer games, etc. We would just be robots, carrying out the necessary tasks over and over again in order to prolong our lives. But what would be the point of prolonging our lives in this situation? To what end if not culture?

2. The other way of looking at this is by arguing that your friend's assumption that anyone does anything that is of no use or value to them is incorrect. Consider the gains you make by creating something: a sense of achievement; the admiration of others; something pretty to look at; etc. You haven't done something for no reason, you've done something for your own personal gain: just because the gains aren't as immediate or obvious as the personal gain you make from eating food doesn't mean that you didn't do it for selfish motives. In this argument, nobody does anything that doesn't benefit them in some way, and so your question is moot.

The common objection to this is that some people give up their lives to save others' lives, but it seems quite easy to construe some selfish motive for this act as well, e.g. people will remember you, you will gain immortality by being noted down in the history books, a sense of honour that dying for a good cause can bring you in your last moments, etc.

Very well said. And easily condensed to one word. Selfishness.

People are selfish and always have motives for what they do.

[SpongerobertoSquarepantalones]

The common objection to this is that some people give up their lives to save others' lives, but it seems quite easy to construe some selfish motive for this act as well, e.g. people will remember you, you will gain immortality by being noted down in the history books, a sense of honour that dying for a good cause can bring you in your last moments, etc.
Don't forget, avoiding guilt. *sage nod*


Very well said. And easily condensed to one word. Selfishness.

People are selfish and always have motives for what they do.
Agreed.

[GoodOlBen]

Your friend's got 0 depth. Creating things is cool as ****.

Even when you pick your nose you will gain something out of it. Whether it be a huge lump of booger, an annoying itch gone or just simply the experience of sticking your finger in your nose.

Every act - passive or active - is of some sort of purpose.
I've slowly become more and more a believer in determinism. Determinism in a nutshell : Everything was meant to happen how they happened, there is no other way for anything to happen in the end.
So you might argue that you had to do it and that the purpose behind it was simply because there was nothing else that could have happened, since a chain of events has lead you to that point and those events determined that you had to pick your nose.

[Keshire]

Your friend's got 0 depth. Creating things is cool as ****.

Even when you pick your nose you will gain something out of it. Whether it be a huge lump of booger, an annoying itch gone or just simply the experience of sticking your finger in your nose.


Don't forget the challenge of trying to fit each finger as well as multiples in.


Everything was meant to happen how they happened, there is no other way for anything to happen in the end.

I've always felt that the universe [ie existence] is just a math formula. with the eventual solution being the end of the universe. And given enough known variables you could make 100 percent accurate predictions.

[GoodOlBen]

Yeah but sadly there is no kind of masochist who would calculate up all those variables :D

[Cid88]

How deeply philosophical for our forum :P

I create because I go absolutely crazy if I don't get my ideas out - either as a drawing, a story, a mod, a 3d model, etc....

[DaveGrohl]

I thought this was a topic about Spore looking at the title

[Ender]

Creation is what you make of it. ;)

[Vox Clamantis]

I've always felt that the universe [ie existence] is just a math formula. with the eventual solution being the end of the universe. And given enough known variables you could make 100 percent accurate predictions.

Hm. The mechanism for predication has to be at least as complicated as the thing it's predicting. You'd need a universe to predict the universe. ;)

~Gabriel

[Oliver1799]

Your friend's got 0 depth. Creating things is cool as ****.

Even when you pick your nose you will gain something out of it. Whether it be a huge lump of booger, an annoying itch gone or just simply the experience of sticking your finger in your nose.

Every act - passive or active - is of some sort of purpose.
I've slowly become more and more a believer in determinism. Determinism in a nutshell : Everything was meant to happen how they happened, there is no other way for anything to happen in the end.
So you might argue that you had to do it and that the purpose behind it was simply because there was nothing else that could have happened, since a chain of events has lead you to that point and those events determined that you had to pick your nose.

The problem with determinism is that it denies free will. If it is pre-determined that I will raise my right hand, then there is no possibility that I could not raise my right hand. Essentially I wouldn't have the choice to not raise my right hand. This is fine if you're happy believing that we are all basically clockwork machines that just go about following some cosmic script to the letter and never deviating in any way, but if you believe that you have even a modicum of free will then there can be no determinism.

There's no way to logically prove either argument, but my gut feeling is that I do have free will, and so I disagree with determinism. I suppose I just wouldn't really want to live in a world where I didn't have the choice to will whatever I wanted.


Hm. The mechanism for predication has to be at least as complicated as the thing it's predicting. You'd need a universe to predict the universe.

~Gabriel

Or something as complicated as a universe but yet wasn't actually a universe. I'm pretty sure the mechanism for predicting the weather isn't the weather itself, but rather a computer that is as complicated as the weather without actually being it. ;)

[Mashirafen]

Yeah but sadly there is no kind of masochist who would calculate up all those variables :D

Considering the number of those variables is infinite, you'd have to find someone with quite a bit of free time.

[Tenken]

Considering the number of those variables is infinite, you'd have to find someone with quite a bit of free time.

Well we're all here, let's get this future predicting formula on the road!:p

[GoodOlBen]

The problem with determinism is that it denies free will.

So? :p

I don't have choices but it's always fun to watch movies so why wouldn it not be fun to live a pre-determined life. I sure as hell dunno what's going to happen next :eek:

[Keshire]

I sure as hell dunno what's going to happen next :eek:

Hence the feeling of free will, even if you don't actually have it.

[Vox Clamantis]

Or something as complicated as a universe but yet wasn't actually a universe. I'm pretty sure the mechanism for predicting the weather isn't the weather itself, but rather a computer that is as complicated as the weather without actually being it. ;)

We use fractal geometry to predict weather patterns. To put it simply, it's a recursive substitution used to imitate things that are very complicated using a formula that doesn't really account for all the variables. You might say it's a very clever fake. Also used for plotting coastlines more accurately. :p

Weather prediction is a bad, bad, super really bad example. ;)

~Gabriel

[Tenken]

We use fractal geometry to predict weather patterns. To put it simply, it's a recursive substitution used to imitate things that are very complicated using a formula that doesn't really account for all the variables. You might say it's a very clever fake. Also used for plotting coastlines more accurately. :p

Weather prediction is a bad, bad, super really bad example. ;)

~Gabriel

I dunno, my sister has predicted 100% of the storms here since, well uh, I wanna say freshman year? But that's because she gets migraines whenever the barometric pressure changes. So I guess that means, my sister 1, complicated weather formula 0.:p