The Old Republic

[^Blaze]

Quote: Posted 08/10/08 02:09 (GMT) by dsteve3

(This one of the GREAT ideas by the Bioware community for the new Kotor MMO)

What kind of character do you want to play? Do you want to schmooze? Or tinker? Or explore?

Everyone is going to have to fight on occassion. I would suggest hit-and-run be the standard; slaughtering mobs should be unheard-of.

So no 'tanks-dps-AoE-CC-healers'. Everyone should have a real-world identity.

Reputation is a far, far better point-based system then levels. Look at the real world and think about reputation. Want a promotion? Want to get into the exclusive club? Want to do the fancy stuff? What's your rep and with whom?

I don't like 'classes' because anyone who has studied anthropology will tell you that Castes are a greater reality. Sometimes societies de-evolve into structures where individuals are labelled by their birth-right. Modern day MMOs are too chicken to use that.

So it boils down to what you want to do. I suspect most people will by 'hybirds'.

Schmooz: hang out with others in your immediate proximity and convince them to go your way. I think there is more potential here if we really look at the big history of the Star Wars galaxy. Control of the Galactic Senate is not as hard as it may seem; at least for a short while.

Tinker: make components, graduate to an understanding of parts then assemblies until you get that you can take apart the whole ship and know where every piece goes. Then, once you have mastered that, you can design ... "Science!" (Magnus Pike)

Explorer: thousands of systems means an intricate web of space routes. Whats the fastest way between here and there? Don't go to some website to find out, hire an explorer! Whats happenning out in that wierd trinary-star system that is sooo hard to navigate? Hire an explorer to find out! The info will be very valuable.

Remember; the schmoozers can only schmooz with those that are nearby. They need explorers to carry them around to convince others in other places (thousands of worlds...). The explorers will need tinkers to keep the machines running. Every thing breaks, and every breakdown means replacement parts. Tinkers need schmoozers to get the best prices/availability/quality.

(Quote from Legendlore on the Bioware Forums)
This guy is on the right track of where the MMO should be. I believe that along with this stuff this guy posted, there should be full customization. SWG at release was heading the right direction for a SW mmo when it comes to skills/classes, but this MMO should go even further when it comes to class customization. Here is an example. There should 100s or even 1000s of seperate skills. These skills should range from being crafting related to social related to combat related. Here are few skills I can think up right now: repairing engines, repairing droids, ship piloting, pistol weapons, rifle weapons, carbine weapons, melee weapons, thrown projectiles, dancing, singing, entertainment, group leading, mobility, social awareness, weaponary control, party control, droid repair, ship repair, ship constuction, structural repair, building structures, droid maintaince(sry for spelling), exploration, leadership, influncal leadership, searching, guidance, weaponary repair, armor smelting, weapon smelting, weaponary control, armor fitting, force control, force sensitvity(maybe), force points etc...

Also, having the basic general attributes would be great as well, such as vitality, strength etc..

I should be able to make a Bounty Hunter who is good at repairing droids and decent at being able to treat people medically. I should be able to make a soldier who is decent at using rifles but not so great at using pistols, and he could be force sensivtive enough to wield it in my normal soldier routines. I should be able to make a character who has enough points in different areas of force sensistivity that I can be considered a jedi. Finally, I should be able to make a Force sensistive character who is great at flying ships and repairing droids who also happens to be good at dancing. I believe that we should be given a certain amount of points to spend on very specific and numerous skill and ablilties. That way, everyone will be very unqiue and everyone would feel different. There should not be any levels or predefined classes with roles like in WoW. Gaining experiance(however you can do it) would be based on what skill you were using to do what you were doing. So, if I repaired a droid, I should be able to put a point in Droid repair or anything that has something to do with droid repair such at droid maintance.

(Ideas posted on Bioware website)

[SpongerobertoSquarepantalones]

I think that's a wonderful idea... raise skills relevant to those you use. That's been around since Final Fantasy 2 can you believe?

The only way I could see that working is if you also remove levels altogether, and make a character defined solely by his skills. Level restrictions on skills or items would thus be skill restrictions. For example, to learn a force power you don't need to be a lvl 10 jedi, you would need, say, 25 in force sensitivity. Use a lot of force powers? Force sensitivity goes up, allowing you to learn new force powers. It makes sense. Instead of a level cap, there would be a skill cap. Instead of maximum level 60 you would be maximum skills 500 or something. This would be better than capped individual skills which only encourages hybrid characters.

However, a world without levels is harder to balance/create for the devs, especially considering this is a multiplayer game. I think that the majority of MMORPG players would prefer a simple class system.

One might argue that people might spam skills to raise them quickly, but is that really so different from people who just kill thousands of mobs to level up?

If there is one company who I think could pull such a thing off... it's Bioware.

[TrogDOR]

I never really did enjoy the whole mold your character from nothing bit. The idea to me that you can create your character with anything from the vast selection of abilities just isn't as fun due to the "oh damn i should have got that" factor. Plus it usually means the abilities themselves are so bland that everyone is basically the same.

[^Blaze]

http://www.heroengine.com/world.asp
This is the engine they are using to develop The Old Republic. It has been confirmed.

[ninja burger]

sounds alright..

[TigerZeta]

Star Wars Galaxies had bit of the feeling back in the day...

Then I discovered WoW and the beauty that is clear-cut class roles and interaction between them.

The "free thing" SWG had was an utter pile of crap and game mechanics were unchallenging, spammy, retarded, pile of mess.

[ShadeyMan]

I however have a fairly positive outlook.

[^Blaze]

I personally agree with the quotes 100%. A game with no classes and no levels at the perspective of a MMO is godly. Id love to be a Force adapted character who happens to be good a locating people and great with the use of ranged weapons, who also happens to be good at making scouting droids.(Force-powered Bounty Hunter who likes creates his own recon droids.)

[ZeroT]

I hope it turns out like SWG Pre-CU.

[Furry_rodian]

Sounds pretty good, as long as it's not instanced like GW I'll be happy.

[Daven Coyle]

I hope it turns out like SWG Pre-CU.

same, that had a wonderful feel to it there was nothing like it when it came to being immersed in the star wars universe. i would love to see something like that again and having bioware involved gives me high hopes =)

[ninja burger]

Star Wars Galaxies had bit of the feeling back in the day...

Then I discovered WoW and the beauty that is clear-cut class roles and interaction between them.

The "free thing" SWG had was an utter pile of crap and game mechanics were unchallenging, spammy, retarded, pile of mess.
WoW better than SWG? Pre-CU?????

we must have been playing a different game.

unchallenging, spammy, retarded, pile of mess.
but you like WoW? lolwut?

[^Blaze]

same, that had a wonderful feel to it there was nothing like it when it came to being immersed in the star wars universe. i would love to see something like that again and having bioware involved gives me high hopes =)

You guys are forgetting that this Bioware making this. If anything, they should be taking as little as possible from SWG and creating their own game. Im still against classes/levels and fully support specific skills. They should not copy SWG at all, but take what they know worked well from it and create their own orginal game. This is Bioware after all.

[^Blaze]

Im sorry for the double post, won't happen again but I felt this was necessary to post. This guy has some of the best ideas. Source: http://swforums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html?topic=643439&forum=41&sp=345#6022157

/quote from legendlore

As stated earlier, I don't think that a character in this new MMO should be defined as a "class". It should be your choice of what skills/abilities you want your character to have. If this is the way it is done, having jedi as a "starting" class would no longer be a problem, since the specific skills and abilities for a "jedi-like class" would be seperate from each other and would require a combination of seperate specific skills in order to even consider happening. Of course, since the skills are specific and seperate, it would take time before you could reach that "state"(for lack of a better word, NO CLASSES). Also, since the skills are so specific and unique, you could make your "state" different from everyone else. For example you could have a character who is good and controling the force (lots of possible force powers to choose from), but cannot use it very effectivly (could mean not having alot of force points to use a force power), or having a character who is good and using the force effectivly and also being skilled with using a pistol.(includes pistol specifics such as pistol accuracy). All of the skills and abilities should not be defined by a class. And NONE OF IT SHOULD BE DEFINED BY A LEVEL. Please please please, do not add levels into this game. SWG's "levelless" enviorment made it feel like we were actually in the Star Wars Universe. Skills should ALL be UNIQUE and SPECFIC, because this is what most MMO players want: to be different from everyone else. Star Wars Galaxies was going in the right direction of what I am talking about. Although it had classes, they could still be combined with other classes like having a Rifleman/Medic, or Pistoleer/Squadleader. My idea is going futher beyond SWG's ideas and making things even more unique for players. I know its very unsusal, but MMO players like complexity in a MMO, if it is done right. People love WoW because its full of content, from beginning to end. WoW has classes with defined rolls, without any real unique feeling to it. Your just like the other druid in your group only you can cast spells better than he can. Make this VERY unqiue. Bioware, lots of players worldwide are looking to you right now to save them from the horror of SWG and streamline, cookiecutter MMOs like WoW. We all have faith in you, and you have never let us down. This entire community has created a 24 page thread discussing your new MMO, Bioware. Your pretty much (for most) our last hope for a great MMO.

[Alesh]

Welcome to Ultima Star Wars?

I preffer freedom, though you have to be careful to not get skills that are too good when combined with some others and almost useless without them.

I don't mind levels really, what i mind is levels meaning something past being a measure of how powerful you are. For example, chance to hit in WoW depends on level difference, not stats, i hate that.

I like how PotBS handles levels. The only thing you get are more skills (and access to better gear, which i don't like, that should be handled by cost/difficulty of the quest or mob), your HP remains the same, your Balance remains the same... Your character learns to fight better, he doesn't magically take twice as many stabs to kill because of his level (not that there aren't skills to improve your HP, but it's not automatic).

I also liked the skill system in Ragnarok Online, no silly talents, you learn the skills themselves, so your build had a lot of impact. The bad side is that game had NO respecs, so one mistake would haunt you forever.

[Central Tendency]

I hope it turns out like SWG Pre-CU.

Agreed, SWG had a certain feel to it which I've never found in an another MMO. I hope they inherit and build on the player based economy that SWG had.