Linux?

[GenTronSeven]

Do you use linux, if so which one do you use and why?

I have linux on my PS3 and it is dual booted on this computer.

PS3 has yellow dog 6 and I have it just to screw around.

PC has fedora core 9 and I have to have it for school.

I don't really like it but I guess I will get used to it. Any tips on using it?

Also, for those who know better, what specific advantages do you gain by using linux?

[Kazi]

I guess I don't know what's so special about Linux other than it's free.

[Alesh]

It's missing "I tried it but despite liking it more than windows it was impractical to have to emulate 99% of the games i play".

[GenTronSeven]

I heard you could play quake 4.

[Supa]

Sabayon because it's easy to understand and setup.

[AceVentura]

I have opensuse just for school projects (coding).

[Hawk]

I play around with Fedora Core 9 and Ubuntu.

Windows still remains my favorite OS however, after using Linux and Macs regularly. (Yes kill me...)

[GenTronSeven]

Why would we kill you hawk?

If you want to play games and you don't mind paying for ease of use you buy windows.

If you want more customizability ,in fact the ability to change literally whatever you want, and you want to build your OS essentially like a box of legos, you get linux.

I don't necessarily see the advantages of Mac OS... I guess you trade the ability to play the majority of games for enhanced security. I am not sure it is really more secure, just not many criminals are interested in less than 5% of the population

[SpongerobertoSquarepantalones]

Once I tried out linux I kinda never looked back. I'm studying computer science at college, which was the reason I tried it out in the first place (gotta practise what you see at school, right?) and I fell in love. So responsive, so stable... In all the years I've been using linux I only got stuck once, and that was from my own stupidity.

I am also very fortunate that most of the games I love to play work via WINE (it has really come a long way), and that I have no need for highly specialised software (meaning I don't need photoshop cuz I can do everything I need with GIMP). As you can see I do not suffer from the two biggest drawbacks of linux: software and games.

I must admit that now, whenever I find myself working on windows again, I get extremely frustrated in a matter of minutes.

[Torrentazos]

No idea why, i just prefer windows more :/

[Teon]

It's missing "I tried it but despite liking it more than windows it was impractical to have to emulate 99% of the games i play".

Just wanted to write that, but you did it for me :)

[Azuvector]

I use (Slackware, if you're curious. Distro truly does not matter though.) Linux for server purposes. It's also a fairly enjoyable OS to use in general, as it can be a lot more powerful than Windows at getting things done in some areas. Problem is, games and driver support is painful, and quite frankly, there's a point where you get set in your ways and just don't want to re-learn all the basic OS commands and where things are and so on.
Windows remains my primary desktop OS, but I readily use and prefer Linux as a server OS.

[Renek]

I don't see any reason to use it...

[Deathspike]

Depending on the use of the thing, it can be useful. I personally would still pick a Windows server over a Linux server anyday - less performance? Yes, but they are rather equal matched. Windows has my favorite scripting language (AutoIt is fast, easy and funny) and support for things such as .NET, which Linux generally lacks. I also believe its easier to install and maintain, although its affected by the same weaknesses concerning trojans.

[Assassin]

Linux seems like it's only useful for being boring.

[Hawk]

Linux seems like it's only useful for being boring.

Linux is for 2 groups of people:

- Computer Nerds
- People who only do web browsing + email.

[GenTronSeven]

Linux comes with free document editors and instant messaging too.

(Open office has virtually every feature of microsoft office also)

[AceVentura]

Linux comes with free document editors and instant messaging too.

(Open office has virtually every feature of microsoft office also)except the excel in open office fails.

[Pada V4.5]

And you can use Open Office on Windows too.

[Ender]

Linux is for 2 groups of people:

- Computer Nerds
- People who only do web browsing + email.
Not forgetting that some Linux OS's have a pretty fancy UI. Can be pretty useful for getting a lot of work done, while kind of keeping it organized.

[Jedi Boyd]

Linux is for 2 groups of people:

- Computer Nerds
- People who only do web browsing + email.

And gamers. Try this with Windows:



Of course RC3 thinks Linux is a cheat, this was RC2 LOL.

[Subaru]

And gamers. Try this with Windows:

Of course RC3 thinks Linux is a cheat, this was RC2 LOL.

Meh, I can do flip3D in 7, I don't know why I would want to though.

Someday I'll try Linux. Once I clear out my hard drives I'm going to try a 5 way boot just for the hell of it. (XP, Vista, 7, Linux, Hackintosh). No idea why.

[Kazi]

Man, Boyd is on a necromancing streak...

[LewsTherin]

He's searching for posts that match his old age.

[Hawk]

And gamers. Try this with Windows:



Of course RC3 thinks Linux is a cheat, this was RC2 LOL.

http://www.cubedesktop.com/

Cubes are nothing, try this with Linux:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0ODskdEPnQ

[selman_akinci]

It is just a pain to install or do something but i still love it...
Wish it was more automated and dumbed down so normal people could use it..
Also needs some serious VIDEO tutorials built in..

[Jedi Boyd]

Actually Ubuntu 9.04 is easier to install than Windows XP or Vista. Its a heck of a lot more plug and play, and you don't get all the Windows trojans and virusus, worms and such.

Case in point. You can boot Ubuntu off the live CD and everything works (network, graphics, sound etc) on just about any computer. Windows could only dream of such a thing LOL.

Cube Desktop costs $$$, Linux is free. And the other stuff is developmental, I've not seen a Window product yet off it. I"m sure it won't be free too lol.

But yeah, there is a touch table I've seen at a trade show running Linux. Really once you have OpenGL working you can do that sort of thing on any OS (Mac included).

[Jedi Boyd]

He's searching for posts that match his old age.

Thanks a lot Lews LOL.

[TigerZeta]

This experience is from running the Ubuntu distro

Try running World of Warcraft with Linux


GET WINE, N00B!

Yeah, and try running the game before it dies of a memory leak


Set up setting properly

Yeah...what settings?


Well it works with MY configuration

Yeah, try to see which configuration runs raids better, your lousy emulation or XP


Also, I tried running X-fi XtremeGamer (fairly common soundcard) but couldn't get it working properly. Tried running Skype, couldn't get it running properly. Yes, I obtained the proper drivers. Oh, and finding the ****ing sound mixer in Linux was a pain. The user interface is rather illogical at places. And no, this isn't because I'm accustomed to Windows, the ****ing thing was just impossible to find.

Also, try running "specialist" hardware such as Logitech MX 518 mouse or the Logitech G15 keyboard. Good luck with that.

Linux is no-where ready for a gamer at all.

EDIT:

Just to clarify, I hate Windows' pricing model, it's ridiculous at the moment. Overpriced ****.

I'd love to love Linux. I just don't. It doesn't do what I need it to. I'm not technically illiterate, I'd probably learn to utilize Linux to a greater deal during time. As it is, Linux is not worth my time since I can't run the software I want to.

[Gabriel]

you don't get all the Windows trojans and virusus, worms and such.

You don't get trojans and virusses if you don't browse "suspicious" sites :rolleyes: I've been running windows XP for YEARS and recently windows 7, my virusscanner's only found ONE virus (lovesan virus, yeaaa...) :p If that's the ONLY reason to run linux, I'll stick windows ty very much. At least it can run ALL games properly without going through hours of research trying to get some to work on linux (w/o virtual machine)...

Unless people finally make obuntu user-friendly and completely compatible with the standard graphics, sound, gamepad, keyboard... drivers, I'm sticking with windows.

[Hexodious]

I selected the last option. I tried it, but just prefered Micro$hafts Windoez, but to be honest. I would have selected - I tried it, but just prefered Apple Mac.

[Pada V4.5]

Only positive thing for Linux is that its free.. Although Windows is too, if you know what i mean.

[Azuvector]

I like Linux. I use it as a server OS. I've tried on and off for some years to like and use it as a desktop OS. In the end, I've given up on it for that. Using a computer is about what you can do with it. Not a questionable philosophical point and nerdpoints for which OS you run. (Leaving aside how ****ing retarded and self-defeating linux geeks are with their distrowars(Sorry, an answer to a tech support question isn't "your distro sucks, use mine!".).)

After years of pirating Windows, I had to wipe the drive on my desktop machine a few months ago... Here's my thought process:
"Okay.... WGA is a pain in the butt and I can bypass it... But it'll probably take a few days to get everything updated properly with pirated crap."
"I could install Linux...but 50% of my stuff wouldn't work. And it'd take even longer to setup."
"Legit Windows costs $400 or whatever..."
Summary: I bought Windows, and had my machine completely reinstalled(Including my own crap, not just OS junk.) a couple of hours later. And what the hell, MS mailed me a DVD too.

Linux as a desktop OS is a joke. As a server OS, it's great.

[Jedi Boyd]

I'm glad so many here are happy with their Windows machines. I use Windows when I'm FORCED to (like Lightwave3D, Maya, MBIIRC3, etc), but I feel like I'm thrown back into the dark ages when I do.

If you havn't tried Ubuntu in the last few months, you're comparing Windows with what Linux USED to be. Under Ubuntu 9.04 I installed skype right off their site, and it worked perfectly first time with absolutely no changes. The mixer is RIGHT THERE at the volume control icon (can't be easier) and my network printer was detected and just works (no need to load the crappy Windows HP driver disk) and my scanner just works (no need to load the Canon Windows driver disk).

The truth is over the last year or so Linux has become MORE plug and play than Windows. When you install Windows XP or Vista on a fresh custom-built machine, you ALWAYS have to have the stupid motherboard drivers disk at hand, and install the stupid Ethernet driver, sound card driver, etc manually after the Windows install is done. When I install Ubuntu on the same machine, I just put the Live CD in, click Install, pick a few options I like and go away. When I come back the machine is DONE -- Firefox is installed, Open Office is installed, a few clicks later and the automatic install of the Nvidia restricted drivers is done, and I can move on to something else.

I have a few machines at home with Vista64, and I have to freaking dual boot them as there are programs that won't run on Vista64 at all (including some Microsoft games LOL). I've now had more problems running games on Vista64 than I've had on Ubuntu, and its a freaking Microsoft OS!

Windows 7 isn't going to magically fix everything either (MBIIRC3 won't even run on it LOL).

[Hawk]

and you don't get all the Windows trojans and virusus, worms and such.


I don't get all the Windows trojans and viruses, worms and such.

I don't even get spyware tracking cookies from websites(Which you do get on Linux too, btw)



Case in point. You can boot Ubuntu off the live CD and everything works (network, graphics, sound etc) on just about any computer. Windows could only dream of such a thing LOL.


It's also slow and has delays because it's running entirely from the RAM. Done that with a 2gb machine. And that's great, but LiveDVD is only a showroom function to show off the OS without installing it. If you are running off a LiveDVD all the time, it's pointless because no settings or files are saved or anything. It's like you wiped and reinstalled every time you exit the LiveDVD and boot back in.



Cube Desktop costs $$$, Linux is free.


Yes, that's one big advantage of Linux, everything is free.



And the other stuff is developmental, I've not seen a Window product yet off it. I"m sure it won't be free too lol.


It's available for download right off of bumptop's website (http://bumptop.com/download.php). There is a free and paid version with some more features.

[Supa]

I use Windows Vista because I know **** about computers. (:

[Jedi Boyd]

Linux as a desktop OS is a joke. As a server OS, it's great.

Wow, Azu, I'm amazed to hear that from you of all people. The only difference between the use of any OS in a server vs desktop environment is a usable GUI, decent driver support and good plug and play. The same stability you love in the server environment benefits the desktop environment as well, it is the same kernel after all.

Linux is ahead of Windows in plug and play, and the GUI for Ubuntu is now every bit as good as Windows or the Mac.

Case in point. Just a few years ago Firefox was at 1% of all browser installs. Microsoft was slamming Firefox as a toy browser (a joke). Now Firefox is at 28%, and is a significant player in the Browser market.

Just this year, Linux desktop installs surpassed 1%. That' not a joke, it means MILLIONS of Linux desktops are in use today. Part of that increase is due to the debacle of the first version of Vista. Many people have gone from XP to Linux for that reason, especially businesses.

Here at Westport Research, all Internet facing computers were switched from XP to Linux last year, and our IT department is ecstatic. If you told them desktop Linux was a joke they would look at each other for a second and then bust out laughing.

[Hawk]

Firefox was never a toy browser, that's why it has gained so much usage in a scant 5 years. It's demonstratively better than IE in tons of areas. Linux has no such mass of glaring advantages over Windows. Which is why it has taken it almost twenty years to get to a 1% usage share.

Case in point, when those netbook minilaptops first came out, they almost exclusively ran Linux(Ubuntu mainly). Now a few months later, Windows now comes on something like 95% of netbooks. Probably because all the soccer moms tried to use Ubuntu, and ended up being all WTHECK IS THIS CRAP.

[Jedi Boyd]

Firefox was never a toy browser, that's why it has gained so much usage in a scant 5 years. It's demonstratively better than IE in tons of areas. Linux has no such mass of glaring advantages over Windows. Which is why it has taken it almost twenty years to get to a 1% usage share.

Actually Microsoft did indeed refer to it as a toy browser. And compared to the man years involved in writing Explorer, they probably felt like they had a point. The first version of Firefox had some problems, but the Firefox team has done an AWESOME job taking that browser to the next level. I don't use anything else. There are still some sites that require Explorer, but these are getting less and less each year.

Linunx does indeed have glaring advantages over Windows. That's why our IT team switched from XP to Ubuntu. Here's a few of the reasons they switched.

1) No more Windows trojans, viruses, worms, etc.
2) Stability (not more rebooting Windows stations once a day).
3) Open Office and Firefox install by default and update themselves automatically.
4) It installs on any hardware we have here (including 5 year old hardware) from one CD, or from our network install server if the hardware has network boot.

And I'm afraid you're misinformed on Linux in the server area. Approximately 80% of all web servers run Linux. Not 1%, nearly 80%. Where Linux has been slower to grab market share is in the desktop market, and that is changing very rapidly.

If Linux were a joke, you wouldn't be hearing much from Microsoft executives about it. Microsoft is taking Linux seriously, as indicated by their recent suit against Tom Tom (a Linux device manufacturer). A joke OS would never be taken as a threat by the biggest OS manufacturer in the world.

And by the way, 1% is a very conservative estimate. W3Counter measures it at 2.16% (see link)

http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php

[Hawk]

Actually Microsoft did indeed refer to it as a toy browser.

I never said they didn't.


Linunx does indeed have glaring advantages over Windows. That's why our IT team switched from XP to Ubuntu. Here's a few of the reasons they switched.

Well let's see.


1) No more Windows trojans, viruses, worms, etc.

A true advantage. Immunity to all malware.


2) Stability (not more rebooting Windows stations once a day).

Hm, I've left my XP comp running for a week without a reboot and it was perfectly fine. In a small shop I used to work in, I maintained all thier XP(home, yuck) computers they used for the business. They ran nonstop except when I had to restart them for one reason or another. Longest uptime was a month before I needed to reboot them for an upgrade to the software they used for transaction processing. So in my experience this is no glaring advantage over Windows.


3) Open Office and Firefox install by default and update themselves automatically.

Neither are a glaring advantage. Not like it's hard to install either on Windows, and the Windows versions update themselves too.


4) It installs on any hardware we have here (including 5 year old hardware) from one CD, or from our network install server if the hardware has network boot.

So does Windows...



And I'm afraid you're misinformed on Linux in the server area. Approximately 80% of all web servers run Linux. Not 1%, nearly 80%.

I never said anything about Linux as a server, I know how big it is in there. Stop misreading.


Where Linux has been slower to grab market share is in the desktop market, and that is changing very rapidly.

If you call an average of 0.05% of yearly growth rapid, sure. At that blazing speed, it will only take a scant 400 years for Linux to reach 20% of the desktop market. And I've already shared how fast it's growing on netbooks, in a few months it grew at a blazing -85%.

[Jedi Boyd]

Nice Edit Hawk, taking out your "most of those were probably server installs" when you realised you were flat wrong. I didn't misread, you edited it LOL.

And no, you can't just take one CD and install windows XP on any hardware. You won't have any Ethernet drivers, audio drivers, etc if you try that. That's why motherboard manufacturers ship a CD with those drivers on it. You have to install that CD too, and in a shop with all types of hardware, that soon becomes a nightmare.

And yes, we were averaging at least one reboot per day among our Windows XP stations. We do a lot of connecting up hardware (we design satellite receivers) to the Ethernet port (hundreds a day). Occasionally Windows gets confused and can't ARP to resolve a hardware address, and rebooting XP was the only way to fix it. Clearing the ARP cache only worked some of the time. We don't have that problem with Linux.

And yeah, the Linux Netbook phenomenon scared the crap out of Microsoft. Netbooks now are mostly Windows because Microsoft started dropping licensing costs for that hardware. Most netbook manufacturers pay less than $10 per copy of Windows. Plus there are reports that Microsoft threatened existing license arrangments if the Netbook manufacturers don't opt for Windows. Because they are a monopoly they can do those sort of strong arm tactics, and they still work.

Linux share wasn't lost because of fee competition, it was lost because of Microsoft muscle. That wont work forever.

[Jedi Boyd]

Jedi Boyd is like a priest trying to convert us to Linux and steering clear of the temptations of the devil Microsoft!

LOL gg.

I'm hoping to at least let people see that there are alternatives out there, and they are getting better all the time. Having competition is ALWAYS a good thing

[Hawk]

Nice Edit Hawk

I did realize I was flat wrong, and I deleted that part out before you even posted.


And by the way, 1% is a very conservative estimate. W3Counter measures it at 2.16% (see link)

Yes that even faster rate of growth will speed up the march to 20% of the desktop market drastically, now it will only take 185 years. THE YEAR OF LINUX ON THE DESKTOP IS NIGH!

[Meister]

I'd certainly use Linux if I could game on it with a reasonable expectation of nearly all of my games working.

How well do Wine and PlayOnLinux work these days anyway?

[Jedi Boyd]

I did realize I was flat wrong, and I deleted that part out before you even posted.

Then why did you accuse me of misreading it? Or have you already gone back and edited out that part of your next post accusing me of misreading it LOL.

[Knox]

Hmph, I only use Linux when I want to get a cool and way different desktop from Windows.

[Hawk]

Then why did you accuse me of misreading it? Or have you already gone back and edited out that part of your next post accusing me of misreading it LOL.

LOL because I edited it out almost 10 minutes before you posted LOL so I assumed that part wasn't in when you read it LOL I can't help that you type that slow LOL.

[Jedi Boyd]

I'd certainly use Linux if I could game on it with a reasonable expectation of nearly all of my games working.

How well do Wine and PlayOnLinux work these days anyway?

The latest version of Ubuntu comes with a version of Wine that plays JA just fine (actually I get better frame rates under Ubuntu than Windows on the same machine). I also installed Steam and played HL2 deathmatch just fine. If you are an avid gamer (and play dozens of Windows-only games) then you'll find that most of it now runs under Ubuntu.

I would suggest Installing Ubuntu 9.04 as a dual boot with Windows and try it out yourself. If you find you like it, what will happen is you'll boot less and less into Windows, until you get to the point where you feel that you are wasting hard drive space on it and delete it entirely.

However you might come across a Windows game that doesn't work in Linux, and if its a very important game to you you'll stick to Windows. That's sort of my situation now. I still love MBII RC3.2, but it only runs on XP or Vista, largely due to the MBII development team's decision to implement some anti-hack code that is fooled by Linux and Windows7. I've decided to install a tiny XP partition with just RC3.2 and JA installed, and boot to that when I want to play online. Then when I leave the game I just reboot back to Ubuntu (9.04 boots FAST, so no big deal).

So try it, its free, and you can play with it a bit with just the Live CD, without touching your hard drive. Actually the live CD makes a great Windows recovery disk in case something goes horribly wrong with Windows and you want to copy your MyDocuments to a USB stick for backup.

Good luck

[Jedi Boyd]

LOL because I edited it out almost 10 minutes before you posted LOL so I assumed that part wasn't in when you read it LOL I can't help that you type that slow LOL.

Your actually saying that I misread something I didn't read? How does that work?

LOL I better get this into my message before you edit it out of yours.


I never said anything about Linux as a server, I know how big it is in there. Stop misreading.

You knew you edited your original message when you posted this, so quit accusing me of misreading something you deleted because you figured out you were wrong.

[Subaru]

LOL gg.

I'm hoping to at least let people see that there are alternatives out there, and they are getting better all the time. Having competition is ALWAYS a good thing

People know there are alternatives out there. Most people are happy with what they have, so don't really care much. And don't give me any BS about *thinking* they are happy. :)

[Meister]

Hmmm, if Steam and associated games work I'll give it a serious look. Sucks about MB2.

I am pretty tired of Windows to be honest. I had a horrible unrecoverable malware infection (which I got from an advertisement from the Yu-Gi-Oh wiki of all places) that ruined my previous XP install. Reformatting was a bitch and something feels off ever since then.

[Jedi Boyd]

I am pretty tired of Windows to be honest. I had a horrible unrecoverable malware infection (which I got from an advertisement from the Yu-Gi-Oh wiki of all places) that ruined my previous XP install. Reformatting was a bitch and something feels off ever since then.

I feel your pain, been there done that (many times LOL).

Again, set up 9.04 dual-booted with Windows (the install will actually resize your partition for you if you want) would be my recommendation for you at this point. I'll have to do that myself until the next maintenance MBII update.

And Subaru, from what I have seen, not that many people know about alternatives as well as you do. And I'm glad you're happy with Windows. With good anti-virus software and occasional maintenance, its still a good OS.

[Azuvector]

I don't especially care to defend Windows. I don't especially care to listen to a linux fanboy preach unopposed either. So...


he only difference between the use of any OS in a server vs desktop environment is a usable GUI, decent driver support and good plug and play. The same stability you love in the server environment benefits the desktop environment as well, it is the same kernel after all.

Usable GUI = Linux fails. Screwing with x.org, wait, x11, wait, xfree86 every time a distro updates because they decide to switch window managers for some trivial reason is useless. To say nothing of how crotchety and buggy both KDE and Gnome are. And often incompatible with each other. And other windowing utils. Windows "just works", and that counts for a lot in my books.
"Decent" driver support = Hmm, Linux hardlocks on my laptop. Windows does not. Beyond which, my desktop machine works adequately out of the box using solely Windows update. Audio works, 3d works, all my peripherals work. I only choose to update the drivers manually to the latest because I'm a gamer. Using an ATI card on Linux is a joke, and one of the reasons I switched to Nvidia a couple years ago.
Good plug'n'play = I can't think of a piece of hardware I own that I can't simply plug into Windows and have it immediately identified and usable. Part of that is no longer bothering with esoteric stuff. Because linux fails just has hard in that department. If not more. Recompile the kernel for driver support? Please. Oh, no driver written for new hardware yet? Oh well.


Linux is ahead of Windows in plug and play, and the GUI for Ubuntu is now every bit as good as Windows or the Mac.

In my personal experience, you're flat out wrong.


Case in point. Just a few years ago Firefox was at 1% of all browser installs. Microsoft was slamming Firefox as a toy browser (a joke). Now Firefox is at 28%, and is a significant player in the Browser market.

Numbers of rabid fanboys does not a useful desktop OS make. I use what's good. Back when Firefox was called Firebir...wait, no... Phoenix. It was good. I used it, and didn't care about market share. I still don't.


Part of that increase is due to the debacle of the first version of Vista. Many people have gone from XP to Linux for that reason, especially businesses.

No doubt. And certainly, it's a business-viable OS.


Here at Westport Research, all Internet facing computers were switched from XP to Linux last year, and our IT department is ecstatic. If you told them desktop Linux was a joke they would look at each other for a second and then bust out laughing.

Cool. Again, linux fanboys do not a usable desktop OS make.


1) No more Windows trojans, viruses, worms, etc.

I run an antivirus scan maybe once a year. In 10+ years of using Windows, I've had a grand total of 2 viruses. One of which came pre-installed on my first(As in MINE, not family.) DOS/Windows computer. (GJ ****tards.) The other nailed me through some stuff I was pirating, and admittedly, it sucked lots. However, it's a matter of risk factors. You don't magically get nailed by this stuff through normal use. You get it via sites you're asking for problems on. Warez, porn, etc.


2) Stability (not more rebooting Windows stations once a day).

Says the man who's up in arms over years of linux experience being "outdated"? I leave my Windows machine(And my linux machine) on 24/7. My linux machine is idle most of the time, being a server. Sure it's got better uptime. It's doing less.
Linux: 15:54:27 up 32 days, 11:37, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
Windows: Statistics since 4/29/2009 2:16 PM (7 days)
I don't recall why I rebooted my Windows machine. I think it was just to get a Windows auto-update to stop nagging me to do so(Remembering that I've pirated Windows for ages, so aren't used to using that.). I've since disabled that particular quirk. Regardless, it's sufficiently rare for me not to care. I've had 30+ day uptimes with my windows machine. Anyone making jabs about Windows stability issues is living in the past(The last Windows OS that had stability issues was 98/ME. That's about 10 years ago. Wake up.). Uptime is epeen length anyhow, beyond a certain point.


3) Open Office and Firefox install by default and update themselves automatically.

Uh, so? They update themselves automatically on Windows too. As for default install, why would I care? There's plenty of stuff installed by default on Linux that I don't care for. And plenty of stuff that isn't, that I do care about. It's not hard to just go download the installers, as you would for any custom software.


4) It installs on any hardware we have here (including 5 year old hardware) from one CD, or from our network install server if the hardware has network boot.

Your point? Windows does the same. And I've personally had far fewer hardware support issues with it than with linux.


And no, you can't just take one CD and install windows XP on any hardware. You won't have any Ethernet drivers, audio drivers, etc if you try that. That's why motherboard manufacturers ship a CD with those drivers on it. You have to install that CD too, and in a shop with all types of hardware, that soon becomes a nightmare.

Try getting an SP3 DVD of WinXP. Not SP0. :P
I had my machine running adequately out of the box, when I reformatted recently.


And yes, we were averaging at least one reboot per day among our Windows XP stations. We do a lot of connecting up hardware (we design satellite receivers) to the Ethernet port (hundreds a day). Occasionally Windows gets confused and can't ARP to resolve a hardware address, and rebooting XP was the only way to fix it. Clearing the ARP cache only worked some of the time. We don't have that problem with Linux.

No argument there. Linux's networking implementation is superior. You're also not outlining a typical desktop usage pattern.


The latest version of Ubuntu comes with a version of Wine that plays JA just fine (actually I get better frame rates under Ubuntu than Windows on the same machine). I also installed Steam and played HL2 deathmatch just fine. If you are an avid gamer (and play dozens of Windows-only games) then you'll find that most of it now runs under Ubuntu.

Wine reminds me of the old DOS days of ****ing with EMM386 in order to get games to run. I'll pass thanks. It's not worth my time.


I would suggest Installing Ubuntu 9.04 as a dual boot with Windows and try it out yourself. If you find you like it, what will happen is you'll boot less and less into Windows, until you get to the point where you feel that you are wasting hard drive space on it and delete it entirely.

Yup, by all means, give this a try if you're curious about Linux. Myself, I found booting into Linux less and less and then eventually just removed the partition, while it still sits happily on my server machine.


Actually the live CD makes a great Windows recovery disk in case something goes horribly wrong with Windows and you want to copy your MyDocuments to a USB stick for backup.

Indeed. Linux is also useful as a recovery platform. Not something I'd care to use every day though.

[selman_akinci]

*Add ctrl+alt+delete to ubuntu (Make it so it works unlike the one now)
*Make sure it runs all games without stupid wine
*Make it compatible with 3dsmax, photoshop, after effects, soundbooth, c++ visual studio, jawa, radiant
and i will never dual boot again..

[Subaru]

selman, there are other C++ studios out there. I'm pretty sure GCC is the popular linux varient.

[selman_akinci]

selman, there are other C++ studios out there. I'm pretty sure GCC is the popular linux varient.

Well, C++ is the least of my worries... I am just addicted to my 3ds max renders and wine probably makes it like ****..

[Azuvector]

selman, there are other C++ studios out there. I'm pretty sure GCC is the popular linux varient.

Visual Studio is the best, is the thing. GCC is just a compiler. No one gives a **** what compiler they use. It's the IDE and tools. Eclipse, Code::Blocks, whatever, they don't hold a candle to VS.
If MS did one thing right, it was VS.

[selman_akinci]

Visual Studio is the best, is the thing. GCC is just a compiler. No one gives a **** what compiler they use. It's the IDE and tools. Eclipse, Code::Blocks, whatever, they don't hold a candle to VS.
If MS did one thing right, it was VS.

Gotta love how object groups are far better in c++ than regular c...
I am still a newbie but learning takes time... Knowledge of c helps with c++ but it is hard to get used to it...

[Subaru]

Visual Studio is the best, is the thing. GCC is just a compiler. No one gives a **** what compiler they use. It's the IDE and tools. Eclipse, Code::Blocks, whatever, they don't hold a candle to VS.
If MS did one thing right, it was VS.

Ok, you got me there. :)

[SpongerobertoSquarepantalones]

I don't especially care to defend Windows. I don't especially care to listen to a linux fanboy preach unopposed either. So...



Usable GUI = Linux fails. Screwing with x.org, wait, x11, wait, xfree86 every time a distro updates because they decide to switch window managers for some trivial reason is useless. To say nothing of how crotchety and buggy both KDE and Gnome are. And often incompatible with each other. And other windowing utils. Windows "just works", and that counts for a lot in my books.
"Decent" driver support = Hmm, Linux hardlocks on my laptop. Windows does not. Beyond which, my desktop machine works adequately out of the box using solely Windows update. Audio works, 3d works, all my peripherals work. I only choose to update the drivers manually to the latest because I'm a gamer. Using an ATI card on Linux is a joke, and one of the reasons I switched to Nvidia a couple years ago.
Good plug'n'play = I can't think of a piece of hardware I own that I can't simply plug into Windows and have it immediately identified and usable. Part of that is no longer bothering with esoteric stuff. Because linux fails just has hard in that department. If not more. Recompile the kernel for driver support? Please. Oh, no driver written for new hardware yet? Oh well.

Valid point with the drivers there, but a lot has changed. Nowadays you can pretty much install ubuntu on a roadkill skunk.

And I'm not sure about the IDEs but for the beginner's stuff I'm currently doing, I strongly prefer netbeans with c++ plugin over microsoft visual studio. I can write half my homework in just the time it takes for the VS disc to autorun. Eclipse has turned into a slow piece of turd in the past years, unfortunately.

[Jedi Boyd]

LOL you don't have to screw with Xorg at all with Ubuntu. You had to screw with it YEARS ago in some Linux distributions, but that's history -- you had to screw with Win98 and some graphics drivers too you know, but that was a LONG time ago. With all the installs we did here at Westport not a one didn't work first time with the installed graphics card, and there are dozens of older cards in that mix.

Sorry to hear about your laptop. When we did 7 of them here they all installed Ubuntu first time without problems. Heck, my SD card slot works on my Gateway laptop under Ubuntu, but when I boot to Windows it does NOT. If I plug in an SD card Windows hangs for about 2 seconds and then goes the blue screen of death. As with any OS, you can cite examples either way (work or not work out of the box), but the truth is closer to what Spongeroberto says, you can pretty much install Ubuntu on anything, although I don't know about a skunk LOL.

We couldn't attempt to reinstall Windows via a network server because of the licensing issues. Microsoft told us we have to use the same disk that originally came with the computer. Doing that was going to be a physical nightmare, not to mention over the years some of the disks had been lost. Doing a network install with Ubuntu was a breeze, almost as easy as a Solaris install.


In my personal experience, you're flat out wrong.
Well, both your and my experience isn't the whole world now is it? I just trust what our IT guys said about how easy it was to switch to Linux on a bunch of computers (over 50) from different manufacturers with all kinds of different hardware. They said it was much easier than doing the same thing in Windows, and I value their experience doing so over my personal experience ( since they've done it more).

And our IT department is pretty OS agnostic, I would hardly insult them by calling them Linux fanboys. We have Windows2003 servers here as well that work just fine (they run the timeclock software LOL). We also have a few Vista64 desktops that run PADS and Inventor and some other software that our engineers require. But all our engineers have a separate Linux computer that's for their Inet usage, and since the switch they have been very happy with how it works.

Azu, I'm really surprised at your attitude. I never said "OMG OMG Windows SUX!" or anything so juvenile. In return you have insulted both myself and our IT department, when the truth is they are just doing their job. For our desktop stations, Linux has proven superior. And from the recent W3Counter numbers we're far from alone.

You say in one breath (last big post) that Linux makes a great business desktop. With the other breath (your first post) you say that the Linux desktop is a joke. The same reasons that make it a great business desktop also make it a very good desktop for your average computer user. That's the majority of the computing population.

[Jedi Boyd]

Visual Studio is indeed one Microsoft product they got right. I use it every day for both legacy C/C++ code and newer C# .net code. Its a great product.

Eclipse is pretty good for doing applets and general Java programming, but Netbeans absolutely rocks when you need to program with IceFaces/Glassfish or need to use the persistence engine. Nothing beats it.

I've not tried C/C++ in Netbeans, although I hear the plugin is very good. That would be a nice free way to go if you can't afford Visual Studio.

[Pada V4.5]

a very good desktop for your average computer user. That's the majority of the computing population.
Bull****! Could somebody permaban this ignorant Linux fanboy. :mad:

[Jedi Boyd]

Bull****! Could somebody permaban this ignorant Linux fanboy. :mad:

I'm neither a boy nor a fanatic. Nor am I ignorant. I am a professional software engineer with 29 years of experience programming everything from the old Apple II in 6502 assembly to embedded Blackfin DSP systems to modern C/C++/C#/Java on Solaris, Linux and yes, Windows (for client software usually).

Nor do I think Linux is the be-all-end-all of computer OS's. For Windows games nothing beats a WinXP install. I personally prefer Windows to the Mac, even though I did my dissertation completely on the Mac, and it still holds some fondness for me. Nor do I think Linux is the best server OS. The best server OS is Solaris, still by far, especially with ZFS and Dtrace.

Linux does have its place though, and that place on the desktop is increasing, according to net statistics.

[TigerZeta]

You post too often and passionately not to qualify as a Linux fanboy, causing people not take you too seriously.

[Jedi Boyd]

You post too often and passionately not to qualify as a Linux fanboy, causing people not take you too seriously.

Passionately? Hardly LOL. An OS is nothing to get passionate about, its kind of like getting passionate over what type of engine you have in your car, although there are some that are very passionate about engines LOL.

If someone slammed Solaris as a joke server OS, I would probably point out all its advantages as well.

I resent being referred to as boy (havn't been a teenager in 27 years), as well as a fanatic. I have not called anyone names on this forum, nor will I lower my standards and reciprocate.

[Jedi Boyd]

Well, C++ is the least of my worries... I am just addicted to my 3ds max renders and wine probably makes it like ****..

Same here for Lightwave and Modo. Lightwave requires a USB key and the 64-bit version really shines on Vista64 with at least 6Gb of RAM. I don't think either work under Wine with the copy protection, although its possible someone has figured out a way to make it work.

For commercial programs like PhotoShop, Maya, Lightwave, Modo, etc, stick with Vista64 would be my advice.

[TigerZeta]

If you haven't been a teenager for x amount of years, why do you insist on using internet acronyms in unfitting places? As for the term fanboy, I'm sure you know it has nothing to do with age at all. I'm not arguing with your points, I'm just saying that you seem to have a way of presenting your arguments that doesn't exactly bring up any trust that you'd be looking at them in an objective faction. Making a calm presentation of your arguments would easily make people view your posts in a more favourable manner.

[Pada V4.5]

All of the 3 last ppl who posted think you are one. You could draw some conclusions from that. Maybe you could start with not spamming so much, you know there is an edit button here too. A person of your age should know that.

[Azuvector]

Valid point with the drivers there, but a lot has changed. Nowadays you can pretty much install ubuntu on a roadkill skunk.

Doubt it really. To say nothing of non-Ubuntu distros. While Linux in general tends to get good support for older hardware, it's not up to snuff when it comes to new, or unusual(whatever the age) equipment, barring writing your own drivers. (Which, unless you're doing it for hardware of your own design, you shouldn't have to do on anything but a volunteer basis.)


And I'm not sure about the IDEs but for the beginner's stuff I'm currently doing, I strongly prefer netbeans with c++ plugin over microsoft visual studio. I can write half my homework in just the time it takes for the VS disc to autorun. Eclipse has turned into a slow piece of turd in the past years, unfortunately.

NetBeans lost my respect when it broke itself to an unusable state during an autoupdate. And when it crashed 4-6 times in one day on me. That's just for Java though. I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole for C, C++, or C#.


LOL you don't have to screw with Xorg at all with Ubuntu.

You miss my point. Linux distros change their window manager for trivial reasons, and break things. This is an ongoing thing. And likely will be until they consolidate the damn almost-identical projects into one tree.
Linux suffers from excessive forking. Variety and choice is good, certainly... To a point. When you're all working on essentially the same damn thing with minor, but incompatible differences, you're just hurting everyone.


We couldn't attempt to reinstall Windows via a network server because of the licensing issues.

Sure. Windows has higher licensing fees than Linux. No duh. If you're talking business usage, it comes down to what you're willing to pay for what. Do the support costs(Be it your own employee who might just shrug his shoulders one day and "I dunno." to a problem, or the usual enterprise support contract.) meet your business' needs? It's pretty irrelevant to linux being useful as a desktop OS or not. A business desktop problem is generally fixable by just reimaging the machine and moving on with life, whatever the OS.
Is Windows overpriced? You betcha.
As I said before, Linux is a viable business-use OS.


Well, both your and my experience isn't the whole world now is it? I just trust what our IT guys said about how easy it was to switch to Linux on a bunch of computers (over 50) from different manufacturers with all kinds of different hardware. They said it was much easier than doing the same thing in Windows, and I value their experience doing so over my personal experience ( since they've done it more).

And our IT department is pretty OS agnostic, I would hardly insult them by calling them Linux fanboys.


Azu, I'm really surprised at your attitude. I never said "OMG OMG Windows SUX!" or anything so juvenile. In return you have insulted both myself and our IT department, when the truth is they are just doing their job. For our desktop stations, Linux has proven superior.

The above two quotes make me laugh a lot. Don't drag your IT department into this. Show them this thread and ask them if you've got a bias. :P


You say in one breath (last big post) that Linux makes a great business desktop. With the other breath (your first post) you say that the Linux desktop is a joke.

Let's examine that again...

And certainly, it's a business-viable OS.
Again, linux fanboys do not a usable desktop OS make.

See the subtle difference there? OS != Desktop OS.
Beyond which, if you wanted to refine it down further, I'd say Linux makes an adequate business desktop OS(If you're willing to train all the nontechnical people how to use it.), and a piss-poor joke of a personal user's desktop OS.


The same reasons that make it a great business desktop also make it a very good desktop for your average computer user. That's the majority of the computing population.

Yup, the majority of the computing population does Internet(web), Email, and Office with their computers.
The problem begins(Assuming all goes well with the initial OS installation and setup.) as soon as they want to do things beyond that. Like, say, plug in some brand new hardware and have it work without screwing with their OS for hours. Or have their kids' educational(or actual) games work.
Or hell, here's a fun one. Surround sound in linux. Good luck doing that as easy as you can in Windows.

Linux also lacks native versions of a great many major apps that are used in the business(to say nothing of niche-interest software) world. Is it too much to ask "Joe the marketing guy" to use different OS' at home and at work? You betcha. He doesn't have the time nor inclination to bother. He's got more important things to do.
Same goes for me.

An OS is not what you use a computer for. An OS is what enables you to use your computer in a productive way with as little hassle as possible. For the vast majority of the human race, that happens to mean Windows. Not the rest of these: http://www.operating-system.org/betriebssystem/_english/os-liste.htm

I stand by Linux as an excellent server OS. However, there are better choices for a desktop OS around.

[Jedi Boyd]

If you haven't been a teenager for x amount of years, why do you insist on using internet acronyms in unfitting places? As for the term fanboy, I'm sure you know it has nothing to do with age at all. I'm not arguing with your points, I'm just saying that you seem to have a way of presenting your arguments that doesn't exactly bring up any trust that you'd be looking at them in an objective faction. Making a calm presentation of your arguments would easily make people view your posts in a more favourable manner.

When I read what I posted I don't see anything the does not resemble calm. And I've state nothing but fact. In my business I could afford nothing less, as clients don't respond to agitation or hyperbole.

And Azu, I've shown 3 of the 4 people in IT this thead, and so far all three of them say I have been 100% truthful of our experience here in migrating to Linux, and the advantages we experienced over Windows. I will see the 4th later today and ask her opinion as well.

One of our guys (Mark) says you're wrong about Ubuntu changing its window manager continuously, as the default Gnome window manager has changed very little over the past several versions. KDE has indeed changed significantly (with 4.X releases), but the default window manager has not, and that's what the majority of Ubuntu users use.

And all of our Linux desktops serve the purpose we need. And they don't keep loosing MAC addresses either. I'm posting from one of them now (using Firefox 3.0.10), without any difficulty whatsoever.

It is most definitly a usuable OS, to suggest otherwise shows a lack of basic understanding of the word usable.

I am glad to see that Azuvector has come along a bit in his opinion of Linux, as initially he said:

"Linux as a desktop OS is a joke."

And now he says:

"And certainly, it's a business-viable OS."

We're just one of many businesses that use Linux as a desktop OS. A good business uses what tool bets fits the job. Ubuntu fits what we need for Internet facing desktops. Solaris fits best what we need for most of our servers, Windows2003 server fits best what we need for our payroll/timeclock. Vista64 fits best what we need for our Engineers to design hardware. WinXP fits best for our software engineers. Our IT department has to manage all of it, and they do their job quite well.

And Azuvector, apparently Dell shares your original opinion that Ubuntu as a desktop (http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~ck=anavml) is a joke LOL. Wow, could it possibliy be because Ubuntu is a usable desktop OS? Say it ain't so!

:D

[Hexodious]

Umm... The main reason he said it is buiness viable is because it would cost less to train your staff to use Linux than it would to purchase Windows.

In fact thats probably the sole reason. Linux has come a long way, but still needs to come alot further.

[Azuvector]

And Azu, I've shown 3 of the 4 people in IT this thead, and so far all three of them say I have been 100% truthful of our experience here in migrating to Linux

Cool. Truth in retelling of an experience != Factual objective information. Your experience obviously differs from mine. Not once have I stated that you're flat out bull****ting in your tales. I'm sure it's worked great for you. It doesn't for me, and for the general public writ large, it's not worth the time and effort involved in using it on their personal computers.
So, "truth" doesn't enter into it. Go ask them if you're baised toward linux, based upon what you've said in this thread. You're the one protesting being called a rabid fanboy. Which I'll stick to as a label for you. :P


One of our guys (Mark) says you're wrong about Ubuntu changing its window manager continuously, as the default Gnome window manager has changed very little over the past several versions. KDE has indeed changed significantly (with 4.X releases), but the default window manager has not, and that's what the majority of Ubuntu users use.

My bad, when I've been using the term "window manager", I've been referring to the X-Windows implementation in use(Hence my mentioning X.Org, XFree86, etc.). Not specifically KDE/Gnome/WindowMaker/etc. Using the correct meaning of the term now(and henceforward), point stands that they're not terribly compatible with each other, even within the same window manager, version changes do occasionally break things.. And the X-Windows implementation changes do screw things.

Nor is Ubuntu the only incarnation of Linux around, and the cross-compatibility(In a simple manner without screwing with package conversion/repackaging.) issues present in that is yet another of Linux's dirty little problems, along with distribution of multi-distro software builds.
As a programmer, it's a godawful waste of time to say, do this sort of nonsense: (See how there's 1 package for Windows, 1 for MacOS, and ...3 for Linux?) (http://www.worldofgoo.com/dl2.php?lk=demo)

And building from source is unnecessary and also a waste of time for the average user who's never in their life going to touch the code for something they use. Linux's build dependencies can be hellish on top of that, if you do happen to go down that route, to say nothing of glibc version dependencies. Gentoo is even more of a joke in that respect than other distros of linux, but they all suffer from it.


And all of our Linux desktops serve the purpose we need. And they don't keep loosing MAC addresses either. I'm posting from one of them now (using Firefox 3.0.10), without any difficulty whatsoever.

Cool, good for you. I could ssh in to my server and make a post with lynx if I were inclined to compare epeen nerdpoints on the subject.
Linux works for you? That's great. It doesn't work for my needs, it doesn't work for my family or friends' needs, and it's only been used tepidly as a desktop platform at one workplace I've been at. Wherein its caused more problems than its solved, other than the cheapskate issue.


It is most definitly a usuable OS, to suggest otherwise shows a lack of basic understanding of the word usable.

You have trouble differentiating between "OS", "Desktop OS", "Server OS" and between "Business use" and "Home/Personal use", I see.


I am glad to see that Azuvector has come along a bit in his opinion of Linux, as initially he said:

My opinion of Linux hasn't changed in the slightest over the course of this thread. You can(In traditional linux fanboy fashion) twist my words merrily around a pole until they say what you want them to say, but it doesn't change what they actually mean. Which, a bit of reading comprehension would reveal to you.


And Azuvector, apparently Dell shares your original opinion that Ubuntu as a desktop (http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~ck=anavml) is a joke LOL. Wow, could it possibliy be because Ubuntu is a usable desktop OS? Say it ain't so!

Care? Zero. You're not getting my point: I don't care in the slightest about statistics, or endorsements, or fanatic mouth-foaming. Linux does not meet my needs as a viable and useful desktop OS. And preachy OS-fanboyism annoys the hell out of me.


Umm... The main reason he said it is buiness viable is because it would cost less to train your staff to use Linux than it would to purchase Windows.

In fact thats probably the sole reason. Linux has come a long way, but still needs to come alot further.

More or less, yes.

[Jedi Boyd]

Care? Zero. You're not getting my point: I don't care in the slightest about statistics, or endorsements, or fanatic mouth-foaming. Linux does not meet my needs as a viable and useful desktop OS. And preachy OS-fanboyism annoys the hell out of me.

Now I've seen it all. Dell must be full of "preachy OS fanboys" to dare to offer Ubuntu as a desktop for home and business users. They should have consulted you first, and after hearing your opinion they surely would have abandoned such nonsense.

You're entitled to your opinion that Linux as a desktop is a joke, certainly. However that does not mean that others, include people who sell computers for a living, disagree.

[Hexodious]

Dell is using basic sales principles. Selling Windows costs them money. Offering Linux doesn't.

Offering Linux means bigger profit margins. Money is the only thing important to these 'mega-companies'.

[Jedi Boyd]

Dell is using basic sales principles. Selling Windows costs them money. Offering Linux doesn't.

Offering Linux means bigger profit margins. Money is the only thing important to these 'mega-companies'.

Actually Dell charges less for a Ubuntu computer than they do a Windows computer, so they are passing the savings along to the user. For the Insprion Mini 9 its the full $15 that Microsoft charges for a Netbook XP license.

You are also forgetting the Microsoft factor. You think Microsoft is happy that Dell is offering Ubuntu? You can bet they are not, and the balls it takes to buck Microsoft when they are a monopoly and control their Windows pricing show that Dell has some.

[Hexodious]

You miss the point. Dell has to pay Microsoft to sell Windows. They don't need no pay anyone to offer Linux.

It is hardly a big risk move from Dell towards Microsoft, if anything Microsoft will offer them better rates towards selling their product to rienforce Dells advertisment of them. Dell has played a sales gold move.

[Jedi Boyd]

You miss the point. Dell has to pay Microsoft to sell Windows. They don't need no pay anyone to offer Linux.

It is hardly a big risk move from Dell towards Microsoft, if anything Microsoft will offer them better rates towards selling their product to rienforce Dells advertisment of them. Dell has played a sales gold move.

Wow, you missed my post completely. Read it again. They don't make any money off selling Ubuntu, they pass the entire cost of the Windows license as a savings on the computer. The Ubuntu system costs less by the amount of the Windows license.

And Microsoft doesn't need Dell to advertise Windows LOL. Its the other way around. Dell relies on Microsoft licensing, which Microsoft has proven over the years to utilise as a big stick to make computer manufacturers do what they want. Remember they are a monopoly when it comes to Windows.

[Hexodious]

Wow, you missed my post completely. Read it again. They don't make any money off selling Ubuntu, they pass the entire cost of the Windows license as a savings on the computer. The Ubuntu system costs less by the amount of the Windows license.

And Microsoft doesn't need Dell to advertise Windows LOL. Its the other way around. Dell relies on Microsoft licensing, which Microsoft has proven over the years to utilise as a big stick to make computer manufacturers do what they want. Remember they are a monopoly when it comes to Windows.

When the ''common'' user thinks computer they think Dell or some other brand before Windows. A user doesn't care about the OS they just want whats cheap and readily available. Dell has become extremely large and they know they are one of the largest resellers of Windows, they have a bit of play in-regards to the matter.

And yes Linux does give saves to the user. But it also gives saves to Dell, saves on purchasing Licenses to then re-sell onto the users that choose to purchase Windows versions of the machine.

Dell is usually the first brand chosen by Buiseness for entire system upgrades because of the deals that they can offer, Microsoft isn't able to 'bully' like they used to. Esspecially with Mac becoming more and more popular amoung the Student Class of user, which is essentially the next generation of users.

Like I said, it was an extremely smart move by Dell, and their profit margins have probably increased because of it.

[Jedi Boyd]

And yes Linux does give saves to the user. But it also gives saves to Dell, saves on purchasing Licenses to then re-sell onto the users that choose to purchase Windows versions of the machine.

Can anyone explain that quote to me a little more clearly? I can't quite understand what he is saying.

Dell doesn't sell a license for Ubuntu, they give it free with the hardware. How does that make them more money? If I saved $15 by not having to pay someone that $15, and then gave that to you, I would have saved $0.

[Hexodious]

Ok this is the simplist I can put it.

When ever Dell sells a machine with Windows on it, they have to pay Microsoft for the right to sell their software, they do this because only nerds build/buy PCs without an OS installed.

When ever Dell sells a machine with Linux on it, they have to pay no-one, they don't have to charge for the Linux OS. And the Customer saves, making them more likely to splash out a little more on accessories (since thats generally what people do).

Thats basically all I mean by it. Offering Linux means bigger profit.

[Jedi Boyd]

Ok, I get what you're saying now.

I'm not sure if a mere $15 off the price of the same machine with a Windows licence is going to send the buyer into a spending frenzy, but I suppose if it broke the system price down from $314 to $299 it very well could have a very good psychological effect on upgrades.

So the user gets more for his money on hardware, but he still has a joke OS. And Dell gets screwed on support calls because everyone knows (LOL) nothing new plugs and plays on Linux.

:cool:

[SpongerobertoSquarepantalones]

Hey I love linux but even I think you're being fanatical here, Boyd ;)


I'm a person who wants stuff to work without extensive bells and whistles. So I am perfectly happy with the out-of-the-box support linux offers. This sounds just retarded I know but listen. I install, and all my hardware works on a basic level. Ubuntu tells me i have an nvidia card and offers to download the drivers for me. Great! I do 3 clicks and my sound works on my surround system. Great! BUT, as Azu has correctly pointed out, if you want the latest goodies to work completely, you're a bit out of luck. The kernel can get my surround to work, but I cant be arsed to get my HD sound working for my newest sound card (but like I said, I don't need that ;) ). So to me hardware support on linux is actually preferred to that on windows (install pc, look for your motherboard's cd, insert, look for your 3d card drivers, ....) because after it's installed I barely even need to do anything. The general purpose drivers don't have all the amazing functions the real drivers do, but they're much easier to find.

Finding apps you need, installing them, uninstalling them is so easy it's laughable. Compare that to searching on the internet on windows for an app that does what you want, then look for a cracked version.

If people don't like linux, that's good, to each his own. I love it myself, but I'm not gonna keep nagging to people to use it.

Oh, and I tend to rage when I click on a window and it doesn't open immediately. Windows makes me frustrated.

[selman_akinci]

If you haven't been a teenager for x amount of years, why do you insist on using internet acronyms in unfitting places? As for the term fanboy, I'm sure you know it has nothing to do with age at all. I'm not arguing with your points, I'm just saying that you seem to have a way of presenting your arguments that doesn't exactly bring up any trust that you'd be looking at them in an objective faction. Making a calm presentation of your arguments would easily make people view your posts in a more favourable manner.

Seconded,
I like Ubuntu but you are about to make me hate it with all the praising..
Reminds me of dumb Windows Commercials...

[Jedi Boyd]

Well, I got majorly owned (I know, its an adolescent term, but it fits) at work Friday.

When I finally got to talk to Sarah, the 4th person of the IT team, and asked her to read this thread, she laughed at me and looked me straight in the eye and asked:

"Dr. Gafford, what in the world are you doing wasting your time debating Linux on a gaming forum with a bunch of kids?"

I sat there for a second and then busted out laughing. She was absolutely right. Leave it to a female to bring out the obvious LOL.

So this is my last post on this thread, you can all breath a collective sigh of relief LOL.

[GoodOlBen]

Leave it to a female to bring out the obvious LOL

Leave it to a female

a female

Rofl, female. How about woman? Female is such an icky word to use for a humanbeing. Women are people too y'know ;O

[Russian_Spy_Porque]

Rofl, female. How about woman? Female is such an icky word to use for a humanbeing. Women are people too y'know ;O

It's a star wars forum. Most people here have the idea that Women do not exist on this planet and therefore refer to them as Females, some mystical creature that they know little off.

Jedi boyd's "female" contact was clearly imaginary

[LewsTherin]

You can salve you ego thinking that porque. Boyd however, does get regular contact with the other sex.