Spec maps for map textures?

[The Swashbuckler]

For those who don't know, spec maps are essentially the Quake III engine's version of normal maps. They're used on player models in the game. Sometimes they're used to give the player that "shiney" look (like with armour and such), though they're mainly useful as a way to give the model a more realistic reaction to nearby lights and such. (The shadowtrooper skin is a great example of how this is done.) Players have to have Detailed Shaders on in order to get the effects created by spec maps.



Anyhow, I was curious as to whether or not spec maps are ever used in MB2's maps, and if not, if any mappers had attempted to use them.

In most modern games, rather than using very high polygon counts to make a map look more detailed, normal maps (which are pretty much an advanced version of spec maps) are used to make textures react to lights and such to give them a sort of three-dimensional look without actually having to display any more polygons. It's definitely easier for most graphics cards (or maybe all, for all I know) to display spec maps than to display a large number of polygons in an area. Which is why I'm wondering whether anybody has tried this. Making a good-looking spec map is probably just as easy (if not easier) than trying to make a very detailed wall with a high number of polygons, and it's certainly easier on most players' FPS.

It's worth noting that I'm not even sure if the Quake III engine allows spec maps to be used on textures that aren't on player models. But I figured it'd be worth mentioning it, as I'd assume it'd be worth someone's time to try. Shaders in general can certainly be used on map textures, so I would have assumed that spec maps (despite being in the "Detailed Shaders" category) probably can as well.

[MaceCrusherMadunusus]

I have seen spec maps used in maps, but so far... not really impressed with how they look in JKA. But most newer games use more advanced stuff than Normal Maps, they use things like Parallax Occlusion mapping and stuff :P.

The FPS where I have seen specular maps used hasn't been stellar either. Might partially be the level of detail in the map though. But again, I don't really see reasons to use them because they don't help much in JKA.

[=Someone=]

For those who don't know, spec maps are essentially the Quake III engine's version of normal maps.
That's actually completely wrong. Spec maps and normal maps are two entirely different things.

Spec maps just give a material highlights. In simple terms, all they do is determine "shinyness".
Normal maps add fake structure to a material by telling each vertex where to face (and thus, how it reacts to light).

Logically, every modern game model (HL², UT3, etc.) has both, a spec and a normal map.

Now, JKA can read normal information, tho the engine occasionally demands a specific setup of the normals of a model to allow some shaders to work (the common metallic shader on almost all hilts works like that - if you mess the normals up, it simply refuses to work properly), but either way, the engine can't render a normal map, so, all normal editing has to be done in the 3D program.
For mapping, the closest thing you can get to normal mapping is probably a kind of phong shading (a techique that basically softens the edges of a polygon depening on the shader map) which is already used for stuff like rock walls in pretty much every outdoors map in MB2. Once again tho, the engine can't process it by itself, and so, you also have to add the phong shader before compiling the map to get it to work.


For some examples and an in-depth explanation on model and, to a degree, map texturing: http://www.modwiki.net/wiki/Texturing

[DarthNormaN]

They're used on player models in the game. Sometimes they're used to give the player that "shiney" look (like with armour and such), though they're mainly useful as a way to give the model a more realistic reaction to nearby lights and such.
true, they are used on MODELS and models only..
to make map structure that shiny we, the mappers, can use environment maps (aka cube maps) to get that effect done
about the reaction to lights: its senseless using them on map geometry since a map uses precalculated lightmaps and is not effected by any dynamic light (except effects or the lightsaber of course) thus it makes no sense using spec maps here..
models tho dont use precalculated lightmaps but vertex lighting (or something similar to that) and they are effected by nearby light entities, this effect looks better when the given model uses one or more spec maps

but yeah as far as maps are concerned, spec maps dont make much sense
it is possible to use them tho :)