Rambo Jedi

[[Icarus¯-_Black]]

Ok. I've ignored this for quite a while, especially after seeing a poll on whether people thought stagger should stay or go out, in which to my surprise many thought it was perfectly balanced and such.

I really couldn't believe it, during that time I was playing mostly Sold w/ E-11 3 and would constantly just get raped by Jedi that would do nothing more than charge me and swing, and were usually given the kill due to stagger's instant swing. Note this isn't something that usually only takes about a few seconds, I've seen gunners wear the Jedi's force down, only to proc stagger and make the Jedi bunny hop as the gunner desperately tries to distance himself from the ramboing Jedi all the while dealing with his (usually) defunct ammo clip, sometimes these little death throes last up to 10-20 seconds and the Jedi can wind up getting the kill anyway. How could anyone tell me that any ability that allows the Jedi to stay alive for extended periods of time with no force and easily kill something is balanced?

One of the most ridiculous cases I've seen is a Jedi getting charging two BH's and a SBD, of course stagger procs immediately and he kills a BH, then bunny hops around and ends up taking out the other BH and the SBD. It's simply the embodiment of BS.

In so many instances I would wear the charing Jedi's force down to nothing, only to have stagger start and then they'd be close enough to begin swingspamming, in which I'd circle around and do the typical dance of death with the Jedi only to end up getting killed by the instant attack that stagger gives.

That was a long time ago, but the issue still stands. No knockback, damage reduction, and generous forcedrains on most weapons make Jedi the class of choice for noobs and people that generally just don't even want to think when they play. Without secondaries, any Jedi can generally get away with raping someone simply by charging a gunner and swinging.

Typically the course of action of choice among these Jedi's is zig-zagging in during their charge and doing a horizontal swing when they close in far enough to force the gunner to strafe, and voila, free kill.

So many times have I seen Jedi's do this while getting plowed in the face by a Pistol 3, E-11, EE-3, TL-21, etc. you name it, the stagger (both the instant attack and ability to deflect shots with zero force), damage reduction and lack of knockback saves them every time.

The fix for psuedo Q3 did take out some of it but it's still perfectly viable to go rambo while playing Jedi. I couldn't believe what they were getting away with so I decided to just go ahead and try it myself, lo and behold the zig-zag charge and swing yielded me many kills, worked pretty much every time.

Now if you think that's gay, throw force pull into this equation and you get a pretty much juggernaut of faggotry. No more worrying about closing distance with zig-zagging when you have pull, you can simply pull and swing.

I know it's probably futile to make this post but meh, and the fact that the dev team is usually never to quick to get around to doing anything about something blatantly overpowered, but what the hell.

[HiC]

The only time a rambo Jedi is really effective is when you don't know he has Q3 and he just kills you. The rest of the game, when you know he has Q3, he will get owned.

Other than that...rambo Jedi? Cannon fodder.

[AceVentura]

you're the first person saying that jedis are op in RC1 :rolleyes:

[[Icarus¯-_Black]]

I'm not talking about Q3.

Perhaps some demonstration vids are in order?

[[Icarus¯-_Black]]

And if you don't see it happening yourselves you've got to be blind. I see it every time I play, perhaps you just aren't looking for it.

My suggestion: try playing vanilla soldier with E-11 only and no nades for a while. I'm sure you'll run into it more than your fair share.

*As I wrote this I just saw another instance: a BH darts a Jedi, jedi zig-zags during the process, BH makes the Jedi stagger, jedi is swinging randomly at this point while bunny hopping, then the Jedi circles around and gets an instant attack and takes out the BH while getting shot in the face.

[L3ros]

Wow your aim must be worse than mine even i can kill jedi with guns when i actually happen to hit them. Jedi are underpowered in RC1 everybody knows that some people are even honest enough to talk about it, instead of going "Omg mah gunz are not op, jedi are not up, im teh best gun vet there is"

[[Icarus¯-_Black]]

Wow your aim must be worse than mine even i can kill jedi with guns when i actually happen to hit them. Jedi are underpowered in RC1 everybody knows that some people are even honest enough to talk about it, instead of going "Omg mah gunz are not op, jedi are not up, im teh best gun vet there is"

You sound like the typical rambo jedi.

Now obviously my aim couldn't be too bad if the part I'm talking of most is stagger, and you can't really get a Jedi to stagger if you can't hit it. I'm talking about the phase of the gunner vs Jedi fight in which a gunner wears a Jedi's force down to 0 but due to the removal of knockback and the introduction of stagger, the Jedi can swingspam his way to victory despite getting shot in the face while doing so.

[Khage]

Jedi/Sith are easy, if you can aim. Depends on who you play against, and if you play your cards right. You mess up, deal with it, you succeed, props to you. This doesn't need fixing.

Next plox.

[iLovetoFix.]

The only time a rambo Jedi is really effective is when you don't know he has Q3 and he just kills you. The rest of the game, when you know he has Q3, he will get owned.

Other than that...rambo Jedi? Cannon fodder.

I agree with this.

Otherwise, I think you just don't know how to take on a Jedi properly.

[Kazi]

I agree on the point where Jedi get a kill because they're lucky enough to stagger and swing right away, RIGHT after the gunner depletes his clip because he shot all the Jedi's FP away.

Otherwise...it's not that bad at all (from a gunner's perspective).

[Palin]

Happens all the time to me, it's retarded how stagger is supposed to help us gunners but every time a jedi staggers you don't see him retreat, no, you see him run right up to you, hugging you until he can swing.

This needs to be fixed, if stagger is to help gunners, then it needs to do that, not give Jedi instant swings.
EDIT: You should name this topic "Rick James" Jedi.

[[Icarus¯-_Black]]

Well, was just in a server with HiC and repeatedly raped him with my rambo styles. He sure got an ego bruisin'. I even netted myself a nice little rambo accomplice out of Soloman, who helped me in my rambo endeavors.

I think someone's opinion on this gaping flaw in MB2 gameplay has changed, hasn't it HiC?

[Emperor]

It is extremely, EXTREMELY easy to kill a Ramboing Sith with blob and clone rifle.

It is ALSO extremely easy to stop a Jedi with BH, Elite, and Mando. Just learn to aim.

(I only used clone for an example, but reb's have classes that pwn sith too)

[agentoo8]

Jedi/Sith are easy, if you can aim. Depends on who you play against, and if you play your cards right. You mess up, deal with it, you succeed, props to you. This doesn't need fixing.

Next plox.


Seconded.
The philosophy behind the Jedi is 'get upclose; kill'.
For a Jedi to be practically in your face, the stagger hit shouldn't be considered a flaw.
Being a Gunner is all about taking out the Jedi from a distance - at your game. They have the necessary means of doing so.
Being a Jedi is all about taking the Gunner out up close and personal.

Frankly I, as well as probably most half-decent aimers, don't have a problem with the stereotypical "rambo jedi".

[Palin]

Your comment on how to kill sith/jedi is jaded. You're the one bringing up the ability for them to regen basicly their life-force quicker then it normally does.

I play strictly gunner, and it's not as easy as you make it out to be. I can **** with guns, but Rick-James-Jedi bend all the unspoken rules of MB2, which clearly state:

- If you're a Jedi/Sith and run head long into a fight, without caring for your force, you will die before you tap your swing button.

[Emperor]

Also, a soldier with E-11 WON'T kill a Jedi/Sith from a distance. Not if the Jedi/Sith is blocking the shots. When they are low on FP, they retreat.

Most gunner's get kills a close--yet moderate distance from the jedi.

[Mashirafen]

I find rambo jedi easy to kill. I never see these stagger insta-swings of which you speak. If they stagger and try to get close, move away.

[Palin]

I find rambo jedi easy to kill. I never see these stagger insta-swings of which you speak. If they stagger and try to get close, move away.

The problem here is that when you run from a Jedi your accuracy decreases, with any gun save the EE-3 in which case to even get their force down you'd have ****ty accuracy - now with the accuracy gone you're not going to hit as frequently while they're staggering, instead you're going to miss and give them time to recover from the stagger (by which point they'll have closed the distance and be cutting into you)

Also, when running backwards you run slower then you normally do, slower then Jedi running forward, save Hero and BH.

All that combined, it's pretty annoying how a feature that wasn't intended to save / help Jedi, is doing just that.

[Emperor]

I personally have seen it. I was playing Clone last night and Soloman jumped straight in the air, came down and as I shot, his saber went down from stagger, then shot back up extremely fast, killing me. And blob unfortunetly wouldn't have worked on that since Sith have faster get-up time then regular soldier's... *Sigh*

[Mashirafen]

The problem here is that when you run from a Jedi your accuracy decreases, with any gun save the EE-3 in which case to even get their force down you'd have ****ty accuracy - now with the accuracy gone you're not going to hit as frequently while they're staggering, instead you're going to miss and give them time to recover from the stagger (by which point they'll have closed the distance and be cutting into you)

Also, when running backwards you run slower then you normally do, slower then Jedi running forward, save Hero and BH.

All that combined, it's pretty annoying how a feature that wasn't intended to save / help Jedi, is doing just that.

You don't run away from them backwards. You run around them. Jump, crouch, backwhack them, etc.

[Shadriss]

Now that it's been mentioned, I HAVE seen a lot more bunny hoping Jedi/Sith kills of late. I'm not sure that it's a result of the phenemenon being discussed, but it is interesting that the sudden upsurge is there.

[Kazi]

I find rambo jedi easy to kill. I never see these stagger insta-swings of which you speak. If they stagger and try to get close, move away.

jedi easy to kill. I never see these stagger insta-swings of which you speak.

I never see these stagger insta-swings

I never see
insta-swings

SUPA FASTU SABERS GOOOO

[Pada V4.5]

Maybe he thinks the fast swings which happen when your saber is shot when you start to swing? Thats in for several builds me thinks.

[ninja burger]

i see no problem with it, i see people kill/killed myself many "ramboing" jedi just shoot em in the face before they saber you... it works ;P

[Victin Halcyon]

I liked it a lot more when it used to be that a Jedi could still complete their swing on low force, but if they tried to block, the shots would just pass through.

My issue is that I'm always low on ammo when I get a stagger. I try reloading earlier on their approach but it ends up interrupting my force drain and they still have a bit by the time they get to me.

The only advice I have is to stay in open spaces, and hope there aren't any snipers around.

[Colt]

I play both jedi and gunners, and I agree whole-heartedly that stagger is OP'd for the jedi. Infact, this ramboing is pretty much all I do against gunners because I know they can't stop me. Sure they hit me, sure their aim is good, but I have pseudo-Q3 AND insta-swings. They can't even hurt me, much less kill me.

All of you defending stagger, I really question your motives in doing so. It's obviously overpowered, watching countless gunners get massacered because of this **** and you STILL say it's fine? Makes me think you just like using it for easy kills. As I said earlier, this is like the ONLY method I use for killing gunners, I know how overpowered it is.

Any half-assed jedi can negate ALL of the gunners defense moves, the crouching, the strafing. They don't help, the jedi can turn fast enough and run fast enough, sure you MIGHT get lucky but more often then not you'll die. Jedi are extremely overpowered when it comes to fighting gunners. The gunner needs EXTREME skill in order to take down a jedi at a consistent level, while the jedi needs no skill whatsoever. That's kinda gay if you ask me.

[The Swashbuckler]

My suggestion: try playing vanilla soldier with E-11 only and no nades for a while. I'm sure you'll run into it more than your fair share.
I don't generally play E-11 only soldier, but I never use secondary nades. With an E-11 2, I find little trouble with taking down most Jedi, especially if I manage to stagger them. If you stagger a Jedi, you run backwards (as they have no FP and can't Push, Pull, etc.) and shoot at 'em. I'm not saying that I love the way stagger works - as it does have a tendency to backfire on gunners - but it's not overpowering in any way.

[LewsTherin]

The problem with jedi is not being overpowered, nor is it the fact that they can swing out of stagger. The problem is that it takes absolutely no skill to use a jedi competently.
Sure, if you want to kill the best of the best with any regularity, you need skill, but to kill an average player, just run in and swing. Why? Because you cant shoot a staggered weapon out of their hands. I mean, if you shoot the lightsaber and they stagger, you should be able to knock it away if they have low force.

And for Q3, the problem is that you can do any swing out of your deflects. If jedi had to know what swings can be used after being staggered doing another swing, suddenly Q3 wouldnt be a /win button. For example: noob rushes in and swings, gets deflected, does wrong swing, and it takes long enough that he gets shot in the face a couple times. Pro comes in, gets deflected, switches swing, gets deflected, does another correct swing, kills gunner. Pro faces pro gunner and has q3 and he'd win sometimes depending on how good he is at faking the gunner out.

[Andrew Past]

Lews, the problem with trying to balance Jedi vs gunners is that if you set it so the average gunner can drain FP easily, it will always be a bad Jedi > a bad gunner, average Jedi = average gunner, good Jedi < good gunner. Why? Because the FP drains and regen rates are constant. Thus, gunners that can't aim for beans went rely dent a Jedi's FP, whereas the higher-end gunners can hit some of the best Jedi consistently and drop Jedi quickly. Sure, there is some leeway to this theory, obviously, because there's varying skills of Jedi. However, in my experience, there's only so much you can do on your own. That's where being a team player, using tactics, use of cover, and strategy come into play.

[Scui]

I've seen these 10-20 second stagger dances with jedi vs gunners.. and even experienced it on both sides, I think it needs to be fixed.. but just that area - I've never seen as much in any other build than RC1

and these people who are saying oh then you just dont know how to fight jedi ... LOL I've seen you guys fall to rambo jedis in spectate *COUGHLOVETOFIXCOUGH*

[STo/2mi]

jedi get stupidly overly amazingly epicly uber nerfed and yet they still complain about them. fact that you dont like, is someone sneaking up on you and slashing you. thats why no one likes jedis its frustrating if you cant shoot them intime. deal with it thats what makes the game good (jedis)

if you have problems with jedi in this patch..........then god help you....

[Metaguardian]

Jedi/Sith are the best they have ever been.

[The Swashbuckler]

On the note of Q3, that seems fine as well. You can get their FP down if you've got a strong enough gun and good enough aim, and even if you don't - depending on your class - running is always an option. (Seriously, it works better than you might expect.)

[prilladog]

On the note of Q3, that seems fine as well. You can get their FP down if you've got a strong enough gun and good enough aim, and even if you don't - depending on your class - running is always an option. (Seriously, it works better than you might expect.)

Pull Q3 jedi tends to negate the running ability.

But yeah a good aim and strong nerve to not run away can easily screw over a Q3er.

[Methyldioxymethamphetamin]

Pull Q3 jedi tends to negate the running ability.

But yeah a good aim and strong nerve to not run away can easily screw over a Q3er.

Switching to melee and running away negates their pull2 ability.

[ACiDuS]

I agree on the point where Jedi get a kill because they're lucky enough to stagger and swing right away

Because gunners never get lucky kills do they? :rolleyes:

This thread is pointless. Jedi have never been weaker yet people still moan about them. They're just an obsession for crappy players now, and will be complained about no matter how weak they're made.

[[Icarus¯-_Black]]

Because gunners never get lucky kills do they? :rolleyes:

This thread is pointless. Jedi have never been weaker yet people still moan about them. They're just an obsession for crappy players now, and will be complained about no matter how weak they're made.

And the king of all jedi fanboi's responds.

They're not weak if they can easily take down gunners by running directly at them and swinging once in range, using no tactics or skill whatsoever.

KEY PHRASE:

using no tactics or skill whatsoever.

Perhaps you learn through repetition, so let's read it again:


using no tactics or skill whatsoever.


using no tactics or skill whatsoever.


using no tactics or skill whatsoever.


using no tactics or skill whatsoever.


using no tactics or skill whatsoever.


using no tactics or skill whatsoever.

I have plenty of FRAPS'ed videos of me doing just this to gunners, including HiC, who got a nice assraping those few days ago. Speaking of that, HiC, where's that response told you to write? What happened to that? Ego bruised to hard to cope with admitting defeat? Okay.

Without nades, blobs, etc. gunners are extremely suseptible to rambo jedi. Go ahead and try it with one of your friends, have him go soldier and you Jedi. Rambo it up and see who wins.

Now what really makes it funny is damage reduction, here's a tip for those fledgling rambo jedi's out there:

If you swingblock during your rambo attack process, you will reduce the damage you take during your rambo rampage by leaps and bounds!

No more taking 30-40 damage in your rampage, now you can reduce that to a scant 12-15. And those pesky divebomb rockets you can't push because you suck? Just stand completely still and hold block, even a rocket taken head on point blank will not come close to killing you.

Ah, damage reduction, Rambo Jedi's friend.

Jedi's may be weak in comparison to their LOLHEALSPAM of B16 or pronounced rambo psuedo-Q3 with blue, or the Push 3/T3 of B17, but even in B16 if a Jedi tried ramboing a gunner like they do now the knockback stopped them in their tracks. At least then the Jedi had to do a little thinking when they moved in for the kill.

[[Icarus¯-_Black]]

I play both jedi and gunners, and I agree whole-heartedly that stagger is OP'd for the jedi. Infact, this ramboing is pretty much all I do against gunners because I know they can't stop me. Sure they hit me, sure their aim is good, but I have pseudo-Q3 AND insta-swings. They can't even hurt me, much less kill me.

All of you defending stagger, I really question your motives in doing so. It's obviously overpowered, watching countless gunners get massacered because of this **** and you STILL say it's fine? Makes me think you just like using it for easy kills. As I said earlier, this is like the ONLY method I use for killing gunners, I know how overpowered it is.

Any half-assed jedi can negate ALL of the gunners defense moves, the crouching, the strafing. They don't help, the jedi can turn fast enough and run fast enough, sure you MIGHT get lucky but more often then not you'll die. Jedi are extremely overpowered when it comes to fighting gunners. The gunner needs EXTREME skill in order to take down a jedi at a consistent level, while the jedi needs no skill whatsoever. That's kinda gay if you ask me.

A legendary confession from a Rambo Jedi. There are many more like it, stories just waiting to be told and unraveled. And I, professor Ph.D. of Rambology, shall unlock their secrets.

[ACiDuS]

There are so many things wrong with that post I dont know where to start.


And the king of all jedi fanboi's responds

Once again I'm forced to point out that I've been responsible for every single nerf to jedi since b15. I have no interest in promoting one class over another. Frankly over the years I've found this 'them vs us' attitude laughable and sad, from both sides.

You've made your point anyway, as biased and full of holes it is. I was considering closing this earlier, as it really is a waste of forum space, your last 2 replies have made my decision for me by turning it into an ego-tripping troll thread.