iPod's 10 Points of Full authentic making

[WorldsLargestIpod]

Over the last 5 months I’ve searched for 10 particular things that are often times disregarded when making a full authentic, and consequently result in great maps never being played, or worse yet, played, and despised.



[iNote; An iNote is a special reminder or side comment made either to clarify, elaborate, or make a witty comment. In this case, I am making an iNote to clarify what an iNote is.]

And from the farthest reaches of the outer rim I have discovered ten things that should be contemplated when a person makes a full authentic, they are listed below. Note that each is color coded to it’s corresponding chapter, so if chapter 4 below is the color X, anything that pertains to chapter 4 will be written in that color X.


1) Health and Armor Values [on a basic level]
2) Speed Vs. Firepower + Armor Relationship
3) Too much realism! How good intentions go completely wrong
4) Tactical purpose and the Moviebattles Zodiac
5) Interclass Inequalities
6) The ways of the force!
7) Balance by slop fixing loss of game interest
8) Many Vs. Few, and why it’s impractical
9) Tactical Positioning, [Attributes in combination with the environment.]
10) The Dreaded and Fascist ‘Better in every way’ principal



I will discuss each of them in a chapter like fashion. By the end of this guide, I hope the reader should have a better understanding of what you should do if you ever chose to make a full authentic for our glorious benefactors and the mod they have created.

[iNote; You’ll notice that many of these things I talk about overlap, which should make sense. Bear with the redundancy. ]

1) Health and Armor inequalities [The very basics]

Part I, The Health and Reinforcement Principal

This is the simplest of all things to balance out, but many people choose to give classes any health and armor value that they so readily chose, and then are confounded to see people complaining on the forums that there is an epic level of unbalance amongst the classes. Why is this so?
When certain factors are kept constant, it is relatively easy to figure out how much health and armor each class should get. When you have more reinforcements, your health and armor should go down. Idealistically, when the factors of firepower, speed, and extra arsenals are kept constant, the health and armor multiplied by your reinforcements should be close [or equal] to that of other classes.
Let’s do a practice of this relatively simple concept, through an example! Say I make a map called ‘Imperial Assault’; This map has an FA with 1 class on each team.

[I][iNote; with the exception of duels and silly maps, you should have many classes on both teams, and a 1 class per team setup is very lame.]

On one team you have ‘Storm troopers’ and on the other team you have ‘Rebel Commando’s. In our application of my simple principal of health and reinforcements, which of these FA’s is more balanced?

FA 1:

Storm trooper;

Health: 40
Armor: 50
Reinforcements: 2
E-11: 1

Rebel Commando:
Health: 80
Armor: 80
E-11: 1

Or FA 2:

Storm Trooper

Health: 40
Armor: 40
E-11: 1
Reinforcements: 2

Rebel Commando:

Health: 120
Armor: 120

The second one is more balanced, on the grounds that it actually has equal health values when you put everything into ‘perspective’.

Part II: But there’s more! What about special armors

However, when figuring out Health + Armor Values, there is more to consider besides how MUCH armor a player gets, here is a list of important factors to consider.

A) What kind’s of special armors does the player have? In open mode only Super Battle Droids can receive the special armors, but in FA, anyone can receive them.

[[iNote; MBII currently has 3 kinds of armor, blast armor, Cortosis, and magnetic plating.

- Magnetic plating reduces damage on blaster shots, [To what percentage I don’t know, I think all values are 50%]
- Cortosis Reduces damage from light sabers and swords, sticks, and bats, basically, any reskin of a light saber counts as something defended by cortosis. [It doesn’t differentiate] Cortosis is also the only armor [currently] with a level 2 setting that turns an opponents lightsaber off; highly effective but has only been used in 1 FA over the course of history.
- Blast Armor Reduces damage from Explosives, punches, and projectile rifles [I think]

You can see why these armors are important, if you use them, they’ll give excellent defense. ]]

B) How does the special armor contrast or compare to most of the weapons used in game?

[[iNote; This is the important part, the Cortosis armor is useless in a game where everyone uses blasters, just like magnetic plating is useless in a map where everyone has lightsabers. However, Cortosis is extremely effective when most enemies use lightsabers, and so on. The kinds of weapons used in game weigh the strength of a special armor. Consider this when you are making your FA.]]

C) What kind of armor / health regeneration does the player have?

while level 2 has no caps, so it will always go to it’s max armor value.
It would only make sense that health and armor regeneration is important, healing armor and health is virtually the same as extra armor to begin with. And 100 health with heal 3 is considerably heavier than 100 health without.


D) How do the health and armor regeneration compare with the actual health values of the player using it?

[I][[ iNote; 300 health might be acceptable with heal level 1, particularly if the enemy has high firepower weaponry. 125 health might be acceptable with heal level 3, but 300 health would in many cases be unacceptable with heal level 3.
This is because, all values over 100 health will go straight to the max health value. [Due to the fact that Caps are set for open mode where the only healing class, Hero, has a max of 100, so why have caps for 200, 300, and 400 etc. for a 100hp class?] This might not be unbalanced if the character is weak in its other aspects [speed and firepower] However, high health and good heal encourages hiding when a player becomes weaker so they can heal, which is lousy for game play. On top of that, no one wants to spend ages killing 1 enemy, and remember that the more health your enemies have, the more ammunition required to slay them. ]]

Part III: Is there a standard?


Another thing; How does one classify the ‘Strength’ of an armor in terms of light, medium, and strong?
This is a very good question you must ask yourself when working on an FA. The answer is that it is all completely relative. However, movie battles works optimally at Health values ranging from 25-500.

[[ iNote: There is a reason for me saying the above. Say, for example, you made the weakest class have 100/100 [Health and armor] With 5 lives, and your strongest having 500/500, assuming that their arsenals and speed are taken into consideration, the game is balanced. However, values that high, or values lower than that, tend to augment / diminish the effects usefulness of armor to degree’s which are detrimental to optimal game play. Extreme [As in very high or low] values tend to change the effects of weapons and make them more or less effective. It also adds an unnatural element to game play because it’s too much like jk3 where you have to completely annihilate your enemy with firepower in order to kill them. [This is unrealistic and ruins the ‘fast pace’ nature of the game] So, as I stated before, 25-500 is your best bet… ]]

In the case of relativity, I rate movie battles armor like this. 0 to 35 would be Light Armor, 35-65 would be medium Armor, 65-100 would be Heavy Armor, 100-175 would be battle Armor, and anything beyond 200 is basically what I would call ‘Extreme plating’ Which I would only advise for certain very slow classes or classes without any weapons like a Zombie, a Grapple droid, or a blaze trooper. HP values are a little bit different, I treat 25-50 as a generic individual, 50-80 as a soldier, 80-120 as an Elite individual 120-200 as one who has above-human strength [like mace windu or a trandoshan] and 200-750 as something that a wookiee would have.

Part IV one last thing

Be very carefull about giving classes Regenerating Armor! Regenerating Armor [Though I think this only applies to level 2] Goes straight back to its full value. [As I said before] Meaning if you give your armor healer A LOT of armor, they are going to have a large advantage over those that don’t.
my suggestion for this applies to my part II rule, when armor regeneration is lower, you can have more armor, when regeneration is higher, you should give them less. I discourage armor regeneration level 2 for any armor values greater than 50 unless other classes have the same or similar advantages.

[WorldsLargestIpod]

2) The Speed vs. Health /Armor + Firepower Relationship



Part I: Why does speed matter?

The majority of the movie battles community is accustomed to the same general speed’s for it’s classes. This ranges from the slowest unmodified speed of the SBD, to the fastest unmodified Speed, the hero.

[iNote; This never includes the droideka because vehicles are somewhat unique in nature]

[iNote: Incase you were wondering, unmodified means the speed which a character can move at without the aid of force speed, force jump, stamina, or a jetpack. [All of which increase speed]. Unmodified speeds are a better way of figuring out speed values because, with the exception of certain values, these modified speeds are only temporary.]

However! Please do take modified speeds into consideration also into consideration as factors of speed, while they are temporary, they are often times integral and pivotal in the success of a battle.

So why is speed important? Increasing and decreasing speed beyond the levels of those 2 standards, Hero and SBD, is an unwise decision in most cases. What happens is this; you get the issue where players are not accustomed to leading an opponent profoundly [That getting hits are impossible or unnatural], or if you make them too slow, hitting them becomes a piece of cake. [Which is never fair unless you are talking about a class with insane firepower and armor] Consequently, keep your speeds are decent levels, and make sure speed levels are oppositely proportional to other defenses such as blocking, health, etc.


[iNote; There is an exception; if every player in the game is that fast or that slow, but I still discourage this never the less.]

Part II: Speed, Firepower, Armor, and You

1) Combining high speeds with high armor or health creates a class that is simply impossible to kill. For the obvious reason that you can barely hit them, and when you do, they don’t lose much health in respect to their total. Even worse, RUSTY, is when you give them heal combined with the high hp, and EVEN WORSE, IS WHEN YOU GIVE THEM MINDTRICK!!!!!!
[iNote; Key example is the Melee midget, if you were oblivious to my hints.]

2) Combining high speeds with high firepower creates a class that is a murdering machine.

[iNote; Such as the Mark I]

Now, I can’t honestly [nor can anyone else] create an all inclusive and comprehensive chart which shows these factors and how to get them to even out, because it’s all relative to what other classes abilities are.

Part III: Houston, we have a problem… And I have a solution!

1) The only practical way to keep a balance is to have someone else look at the speed, armor, and attack values of your class.

[iNote; We all have our biases, getting second opinions will always improve the quality of your work; which is why I had Bigfoot make sure this guide didn’t suck.]

If they think it’s a bit overpowered [compared to your other classes] Then you should maybe consider lowering it slightly.

2) Then, put it into beta testing and see how it fairs in the only real means by which to test for balancing; in game. PLEASE beta test You won’t regret it.

3) Too much realism! How good intentions go completely wrong

Part I: The Darth Chaos logic Complex

[I][iNote; The ‘Darth Chaos’ [A b19 movie battles player who advocated extreme enhancement of Jedi powers] logic complex is where you would give your hero classes immense strength over the generics simply because that’s how it was in the movies. Yes, I invented this word myself, and no, I don’t care that I did; this is my guide, I can say what I want >: D]

Another major issue concerns this sort of fanaticism involving what is ‘real’

This is ludicrous for two reasons,

1) A science fiction has no limits to its potential, and neither should your imagination. [so long as it maintains balance, and doesn’t have any thing that is sexual] and the very concept of realism in starwars is silly.

2) More importantly, is that movies are made so that events are plotted out, in movie battles; ‘greedo shoots first’ is it’s modo. So be sure that Han and greedo are on equal terms, so we know who’s a noob and who’s not
[iNote; HOWEVER, I advise that the phrase be changed to ‘greedo shoots first, unless he’s a noob’ ]


Part II: Why is the Darth Chaos logic, Chaotic?

Here’s an example of how balance can go completely wrong… Lets see… lets make a boba fett class.

Darth Chaos logic; Well… He was strong, as a mandalorian [and in kotor, the mandalorian canderous could heal really fast]. He had powerfully thick armor, that was very advanced… a jetpack… flamethrower.. wrist blaster… He had an ee-3, but in JKA he also had an e-11, a disruptor, and a rocket launcher. HE also did some acrobatics tricks, so I’ll give him stamina and dexterity… Behold my boba fett

Boba Fett:

Health: 150
Armor: 250
Heal: 3
Armor Regen: 3
Ee-3: 3
E-11: 3
Disruptor: 2
Strength: 3
Magnetic plating
Blast Armor
Cortosis
Merr-Son Rocket Launcher: 3
Flamethrower
Jepack fuel: 3
Stamina: 3
Dexterity: 3

…And Boba fett will have to fight some rebels… Rebel’s wear jackets, so they probably don’t have a lot of armor, and the stormtroopers kicked their asses pretty easily on taintive, and they came with slow firing DH44’s…. And it didn’t look like there were a lot of them on the ship So…

Rebel:
Health: 35
Pistol: 1

RRRIIIIIGGGHTTTT… well I bet many of you are drooling over the thought of being able to play as THAT Boba Fett right now. But how do you think the rebels feel, kind of sucks right?



Part III: Realism Vs. Authenticity

Realism can exist, but you have to figure out exactly ‘how far’ you can go without going too far. This is why is important to measure up how classes would fair against one another in battle. Remember that gamers, though most of them lack souls, are humans, and humans hate the notion of having other humans get vastly superior classes to their own.
There is a definite difference between something being realistic, and something being authentic. Obviously, the goal of making a full authentic is to make it authentic to the battle that occurred. Realism is when you try to make it exactly like the way it might have been in the movie. Authenticity is when you go by the general guidelines of how the battle was in whatever game or movie you are trying to repeat, but you do not give the hero or soldier classes exact values based on their performance in game. Here’s an example;

A Real Kyle Katarn Vs. a Real Storm trooper

In the DF and JK series, Kyle katarn could take on tons of stormtroopers, He knew how to use force lightning, Grip, Mindtrick, push, pull, speed, sense, and jump, and at a masterful level, He also had amazing saber fighting abilities… so here is my ‘real’ kyle Katarn.

Kyle katarn;

Health: 250
Force Jump: 3
Force Push: 3
Force Pull: 3
Force Speed: 3
Force Sense: 3
Force Grip: 3
Force lightning: 2
Force Mindtrick: 3
Force Heal: 3
Force Pool: 200
Saber Attack: 3
Saber Defense: 3
Saber Deflect: 3
Force Block: 3

Stormtrooper’s died in 1 hit, and fired very slowly… So lets make our storm troopers like this;

Stormtrooper:
Health: 20
Armor: 5
E-11: 1
Reinforcements: 2

This battle is going to be very 1 sided… Well! This FA is crap. Time nerf Kyle to death. Wait! Hold your horses, We may have ruled out realism, but we still have AUTHENTICITY.
Lets look at this again, Kyle Has many force powers, But who says he needs to have every one of them in level 3? Was Kyle really some super consular? Well… kyle’s not really the mystic type, so lets see if we can give kyle a wide range of force powers

[iNote; Kyles experience in the Votj gave him a wide range of both light and dark side powers, this is a wookieepedia fact. [As factual as fiction can get :P] ]

But not so powerful! Kyle had some dark side powers, but he wasn’t a sith lord, so they would probably be weak and low of level [lest he be turned to the dark side] .Kyle Katarn is still a human, and wouldn’t have 250 health just because he’s a jedi… Maybe we could tweak that too. Lets make an authentic kyle Katarn…

Kyle Katarn;

Health: 120
Force Jump: 2
Force Push: 2
Force Pull: 2
Force Sense: 2
Force Speed: 3
Force Mindtrick: 2
Force Heal: 1
Force Grip: 2
Force Lightning: 1
Force Pool: 100
Saber Attack: 3
Saber Defense: 3
Saber Deflect: 2
Force Block: 2

Well… Kyle’s pretty strong, he has 120 health… more than a regular guy. He has a wide range of forcepowers, but he isn’t so much of a threat with his powers that stormtroopers have to fear his push and grip as well as mind trick, and his force pool has been reduced to that of a standard Jedi.
Now let’s look at the storm trooper; Well… Since this is Moviebattles and not JKA, We won’t have 25 stormtroopers against Kyle, more like 3-6, so let’s perhaps make the stormtroopers weak, but not as weak as they were in game. We can raise their armor and firepower!

Stormtrooper:

Health: 35
Armor: 65
E-11: 2
Reinforcements: 2

These storm troopers will be pretty weak against Kyle, but at least now they stand more than a snowball’s chance.

Once again, you must avoid using the darth chaos logic of ‘realism is balance’ because it’s not. George Lucas tells each character in the movies what to do, how many asses they kick, and when they die.

In moviebattles; all classes are created balanced, and are scripted by their creator with certain inalienable rights, and that among these are interest, balance, and the pursuit of pwnage.

[WorldsLargestIpod]

4) Tactical Purposing The Moviebattles Zodiac

This isn’t really a true movie battles zodiac, in fact it’s more of a standard for most class based first person shooter games. The moviebattles Zodiac is a system which discusses various professions that a class can ‘fit’ into, that have various benefits and weaknesses. When making an FA, consider what ‘zodiac sigh’ your FA class might be, note that this probably isn’t an all encompassing list, but I’ll try and add as much as I can to it in terms of possible configurations.

The point to the movie battles Zodiac is so that Full authentic makers can examine the kind of class they make, and say ‘Well this class is rather synonymous with a [_____], consequently, it should have it’s advantages in ______ and it’s weaknesses in _______. Much of the time, the classes that they make are going to fit the category of ‘unique’, where they incorporate multiple elements of various movie battles Zodiac, However, a class lacking any seriously unique features [particularly in comparison to other classes] is going to end up being boring, and a class with too many unique features is in danger of being overpowered. So it may be better to Focus your class in one of these categories instead of deciding to weaken every feature individually. [However, this is not always the case]

Furthermore, if you are ever unsure as to what ‘direction’ a class should follow, perhaps looking at this zodiac and using the ‘weaknesses’ and ‘strengths’ and getting an idea in your mind is better than giving up on the class, or doing something you might regret.

A. Soldier;

The soldier is any kind of generic class which bases it’s strength in reinforcements, it usually comes with the standard weaponry [which is almost always an e-11, though not entirely] And has low protection, medium to low firepower, and medium to low speed. However, this does not mean that soldiers should have the lowest of any of these characteristics compared to any other class.
Soldier classes include Battledroids, Phase II Clone Troopers, Stormtroopers, Rebels, and generic mercenary soldiers.

Example;

B1 Battle Droid;

Health: 40
Armor: 10

Attributes:
E5: 1
Reinforcements: 4

B. Assault


Assault classes are classes that focus their energy into High RoF weaponry with decent armor for protection, At the cost of speed and usually only coming with 1 or maybe 2 lives.
They’re suppressive weaponry makes them excellent at medium range, but they usually suffer at very long ranges where snipers can take aim at them.

[iNote They’re low speed making it easier to land hits]

Assault Classes include Phase I Clonetroopers, Super Battle Droids, Arguably; elite troopers, arguably; wookies and arguably; ‘Commandos’ Assault classes can also, occasionally come equip with Grenade weapons.

Example;

Phase I Clone Captain

Health: 80
Armor: 100
Dc-15a Blaster Rifle: 3
Clone Pistol: 1



C. Heavy Weapons / Demolitions

It’s easy to get assault and heavy weapons confused; Heavy weapons use Explosives as opposed to High ROF weapons in order to take down enemies. Explosives include TD’s, Pulse Grenades, Fragmentation Grenades, and Rocket Launchers. Also, a concussion rifle is also in many ways a weapon that would be used by a heavy weapons specialist. This makes the class more dangerous to foes and even more dangerous to use for their own personal Safety . This classes’ primary advantages are it’s High Armor and it’s immense explosives damage capacity. It’s weaknesses are it’s speed, it’s high risk of self as well as team endangerment, and it’s low ammunition stock
Here’s are 2 possible Examples of a Heavy weapons Specialists; type class. Please note that a Heavy weapons class is not prohibited from other weapons simply because of being a heavy weapons class [the same applies to all classes] However, it’s primary weapon should be it’s explosive weapons.

Tradoshan;

Health: 250
Armor: 65
Concussion Rifle: 2
Thermal Detonator: 1
Ammo: 3

Rebel Vanguard:

Health: 80
Armor: 80
Blast Armor: 1

Rocket Launcher: 3
Fragmentation Grenades: 3
E-11: 2

D. Marksman

A marksman is a class that serves primarily as a Long Range Weapons user. It might be fair to call this class a ‘sniper’ but marksman’s can also include usage of Dlt-20a’s and A208’s, which also excel in long range combat. They’re strength is their long range as well as their agility [A class that is not going to be placing itself in the heaviest amount of fire is more likely to be lightly armored, this allows the sniper to get from firing point to firing point more easily] and conversely, their weakness is short range, a marksman doesn’t have weapons like the e-11, shotgun, pistol, or melee blade which would enable them to protect themselves.

[I][ iNote; Do not, however, rule out the possibility of any of those weapons for a sniper, just understand that having those kind of weapons in high strength conflicts with the authenticity of a marksman]

The only 2 real marksman’s in MBII open would be Bounty hunters with sniper rifles, and those pesky ‘sniper heros’

Here are 2 examples of Marksmen

Rodian Hunter:

Health: 100
Armor: 25

Disruptor Rifle: 2
Pistol: 2

Dodge: 3
Heal: 1

Imperial Elite Sand Trooper Light Duty;

Health: 80
Armor: 30

Dlt-20a: 3
Pistol: 1

Dodge: 2
Reinforcements: 1

E. Reconnaissance Types

Scout type classes are classes that are rarely used ingame, since most players don’t like playing a support / informer role. However, I have noticed an interesting feature in the MBII Wiki that would probably make this kind of class more appealing. Any who, scout classes are classes that can move at high speeds [In terms of regular movement speed, scout classes should be the fastest over any other mbII zodiac type] and avoid being seen or killed, they usually come lightly armed and armored. [They’re poor weaponry and armor is their weakness] Here are a few examples;

Scout Trooper;

Health: 80
Armor: 20

Scout Pistol: 2
Binoculars: 1
Dodge: 2
Stamina: 2
Life Form Scanner: 1
Reinforcements: 1

Rebel Spy:

Health: 100
Armor: 15

Smuggler Pistol: 3
[That feature I motioned]: [Whatever level]
Dodge: 2
Stamina: 3
Dexterity: 3
Tracking Darts: 3
Fast Hacking: [X1.5]

[U] F. Assassin Type

Assassins are similar to Reconnaissance, except for the fact that assassins are designed to sneak up on enemies, and rather than track them, kill them. This means they are more fighting oriented than movement oriented. Assassins usually have medium armor, and they should still be a bit slower than recon. They’re weapons of assassination should usually be short melee weapons, though they are not prohibited from firearms.

For example;

Clone Assassin Trooper;

[I][iNote; My Clone Assassin Trooper differs from the one in jedi temple, In one respect, the assassin Trooper in JT defies the way I defined it, as in not having a lot of armor, but the reason that the one in JT had a lot of armor is because their short weaponry, and not having any blocking ability, means that they’re ability to Assassinate enemies is hindered without high armor. My Assassin Trooper doesn’t have this problem because it’s defense is supplemented in other manners]

Clone Assassin Trooper:

Health: 100
Armor: 50
Cortosis Armor: [1]
Cloaking Device: [1]

Melee
Arm Blades
Poison Darts: 2
Attack: 3
Defense: 2
Stamina: 3
Dexterity: 2

[WorldsLargestIpod]

G. Support Type

Support types are usually medium fighting skill classes that have the ability to provide either Health or ammo to other classes, this ability makes them highly useful, especially when they used their ammunition ability to restock the grenades or rockets of another player. A support type is a kind of class that is most benefited when it is fast, since it’s power doesn’t rest in it’s own fighting ability, rather, it’s ability to aid others, thus, speed makes moving from person to person even safer. Realistically, a standard medic would not be a class which carried large heavy weapons and thick armor because a medic would not be fighting in the battle very actively. The ideal medic has light firepower weaponry, Light armor, decent speed, and the ability to assist others with Heal-other and providing ammunition.

Example;

Rebel Medic:

Health: 120
Armor: 20

Pistol: 2
Stolen E-11 Carbine: 2

Stamina: 1
Dodge: 2
Can Heal Allies
Tracking Darts: 2
Poison Darts: 1

The Clone medic from JT is also a very good example of an ideal medic.

F. Brawler

The ‘Brawler’ is a type of class that excels at close range combat in or during a battle that mostly involves GUN combat. There are very few brawler classes implemented in MBII, and they are very difficult to balance due to the awkward relationship between guns and swords. Brawlers typically have high defense, [Whether it be in the form of saber deflection, or high hp values]
Bawlers can include both classes like the Magna Guard or melee wookiee, since both of them focus on close range combat.

The key to balancing the brawler is finding a balance between their attack capabilities [which include damage per attack, AP [if you are talking about a duelist type brawler] and also speed, which makes them able to get to enemies faster or slower] their defense capabilities [Saber defense and health/armor] As well as the fighting power of the other gunner classes.
In many ways, the brawler is a remake of the assassin, meant to be more direct in offense. [However, it is always better to attack an enemy using stealth if you have the ability to do so, even though it’s kind of cheap in nature.] As a result, they’re armor is higher. A good example of a brawler is the mercenary swordsmen in raxus, as well as Alpha’s interpretation of the magna guard and the Phase I Darktrooper in Assault. One side note, always be wary of giving q3 to brawler classes, as it is a potentially, VERY powerful technique when combined with high hp values.

K. Jedi

I am sure after reading this, many people have ideas on other kinds of different class types, particularly when you factor in that not all Jedi count as ‘brawlers’, certainly so, since force powers have heavily weighted into what a Jedi classifies as. This is why Jedi, in general, are classified as independent of other groups because of how they vary. For this reason, and for the reason that jedi are an intergral part in an FA, they have their own segment. In another chapter.

L, Beyond

I’m sure you have some other ideas that fit into your mind about what other kinds of classes you can have, for the most part, most of the classes of the game can be fit into these categories, but some, take the Arc trooper for example, are somewhat unique. Therefore, because you cannot classify them, use other techniques of their basic fighting elements [such as the ones I have discussed, health, armor, weaponry, and speed] and figure out how to get them in sync with the rest of the classes, since relativity is key with an FA, not necessarily keeping your values ‘low’. [I also discuss this]



5) Interclass Inequalities




Part I: God + Fodder Vs. God + Fodder

What does that god and fodder stuff mean?
It simply refers to an FA where you have BALANCE, but not amongst the classes within a team… For example, lets say each team get’s 1 Jedi, that jedi has all level 3 powers and 200 force, basically, a demigod. And the other classes have 10hp and a blaster pistol; this scenario is an exaggeration, but it serves the same purpose. The FA is balanced, [in fact, it is, technically, perfectly balanced]
But the issue lies with the interclass imbalance. Simply put, make sure that you do not vest the success of a game in the hands of a single class. This was, in many ways, the case in Jedi Temple, [The old version, the new one is a bit better] Where the clones were Fodder, and ani had a ton of BP and AP, and the game would always be determined by how many jedi the clones could kill before they were all slaughtered, so that ‘ani’ would have less jedi back whacking him and a higher chance of success, with the new changes made to Jedi in Rc1, clones are much more integral in success.
In short, do not think that merely having the Classes balanced is enough, make sure that they’re relatively equal between each other, and that no 1 class always holds the key to victory the reasoning for this is that it makes the game more enjoyable [and more playable] for everyone.
However, the classes don’t need to be perfectly equal, you can have one class that is more powerfull on a team than another. [Infact, I encourage it] But please make sure that The difference is not to profound that, as I have said at least 4 other times, that class becomes the single deciding factor in victory and defeat.

[iNote, However, do not confuse interclass equality with interclass uniformity, Classes can have different advantages over one another, and weaknesses too; using these weaknesses can allow you to have balance and diversity at the same time.]


Part II: Some inspiration for interclass equality

On another note, I would also like to mention something else that makes a game un-enjoyable… Uneven teams. Now, MBII will always have a few bastards [like me when I am pissed off] who refuse to cultivate male gonads by cowardishly choosing not to fight for the losing team [for fear of a bad score] when teams go unevened. [Worse yet when you switch, uneven the teams, simply because you want to play for the winning team]
However, one of the reasons uneven teams occurs besides bad players, is an FA where you have VERY uneven [as in profound unevenness] numbers of different classes, the reason for this is that most people don’t really like to be restricted to a soldiers, and an FA where you have 4 classes on one team [1 of which is a generic soldier] and 13 very unique classes on the other, [unique and cool] people are going to want to be the team with the 13 unique classes. As a result, another thing you should keep balanced is the ‘cool’ factor of each team. While the empire in the starwars movies represented Uniformity, grey hallways, and everyone having the same weapons, it is not to say that you can’t spice up a faction to make it more interesting… Nova Troopers, Imperial Inquisitors, Dark Troopers, Rocket Troopers… If you are making a ‘mini’ faction like the Tusken Raiders, you can break up your Tusken’s into Tusken snipers, Cheifs, Warriors, Preists, and give each it’s own abilities… the point is, try to keep the number of classes on each team relatively close, also make sure that the classes are interesting without being overpowered. Because no one likes to play an FA where everyone has 50/50 health, 2 reinforcements, and a level 3 e-11. A good example of the consequences of not adhering to this is the b19 raxus.

[iNote; Why Raxus? Keeping the teams even on Raxus was like trying to Censor people from saying the F-Word on Aod, it never worked. The Mercs were ‘omfg so cool’ and the customs… well… they were not; it was nay impossible to keep the teams even because, well, number one, no one likes to play as a bunch of weaklings with pipes getting shot at, [Unless you are some kind of martyr]and number two, the weapons were trash. ]

[WorldsLargestIpod]

6) The Ways of the force

Often times in previous builds of movie battles, there was a great deal of complaining about certain problems caused by a jedi/sith’s ability to combine certain powers, in RC1 this is almost completely eliminated. [And we can agree that the amount of complaining on the forums, for obvious reasons, has gone down heavily] As an FA maker, there are no guidelines to combining force powers, and everything [with the exception of force blind and mindtrick, I believe] is up for positioning in the game. This segment will be short, but it is very important, on the grounds that Jedi are present in almost Every FA in the game, and often times, as the primary heros, they’re strength is the decider in whether or not the FA is balanced. There are a few select force powers that you should avoid combining, and many things to take into consideration when playing, I’ll also discuss some tricks you can use to customize and authenticate your jedi.

Part I: Facts and Warnings

I encourage using FA powers for Jedi in games, it’s vastly more interesting when you do. But it’s important that you know about what exactly you are giving to a Jedi when you type in those fancy notepad codes.

MBII FA can permit a series of neato-FA force powers that I ENCOURAGE to you use, [to some degree] They are as follows, Blind, Deadly Sight, Destruction, Heal, Drain, and Miraluka Sense.

I’ve checked the MBII Wikia, and there are no present articles that even TALK about the specifics [Force cost, affects, damage] of each of these force powers; which is why I ask you to take extreme caution when using these powers. [With two exceptions, heal is based on the b17 force heal and is completely harmless, and fairly balanced already, and miraluka sense simply gives you permanent force sense abilities, it’s that simple] Ask a coder about the specific effects of the force powers, and if they can’t tell you. [God forbid] I recommend FIRST setting the forcepower to level 2 or 1, see how it plays out in a glorious new invention called a BETATEST, and THEN release it after you’ve tweaked it properly.

Do not, under any circumstances, give a jedi a forcepower that you just heard about, and do not know the full consequences of the power. In particular, for example, Force blind 3 in rc1 remains to be an atrocity when used against gunners; it’s range is extremely long, and it can be performed through walls; on top of that, unlike force mindtrick; a blinder’s force goes up after the blind spell; which means that once the blind has subsided, the jedi will probably have enough force to blind AGAIN. Untill blind is balanced, I recommend only having blind 1 or blind 2 if you are VERY carefull. [for example, giving gunners the opportunity with 50 force without regeneration, the ability to use force sense so that they can withstand 1 blind attack, but not another. [A jedi with 25 force against a gunner that can see it is pretty much toast, anyway.]


Part II About Q3, What it is, what it does, what to avoid.

Q3 is the jedi ability to block saber shots while swinging [if you’ve ever played mbII, you notice that without ‘q3’ your jedi will not block blaster bolts while swinging. In open mode you can acquire this little devil of a force ability by getting the four level 3 force powers required, [hence, quadruple three, which used to be T3 or triple three, after it was only 3 of these forcepowers] They are as follows, Sense 3, Forceblock 3, Attack 3, defense 3.

Q3 means that gunners can blast jedi with as much skill as they want, but a jedi will [For a short period of time] deflect them anyway.

Unless all of the other gunner classes are properly ‘overpowered’ you do not want to combine q3 with push 3, this means that gunners are caught in an unfair double edged sword where ‘if’ they run, they are pushed, if they stand still, the jedi will easily gain ground over them and they won’t be able to shoot them long enough to remove their ‘spell’ of q3.

Having pull 3 or 2 with q3 is less of an evil, but still should be taken caution, since the Jedi needs some skill to actually pull an opponent. The same applies for Grip.

In terms of authenticity, Q3 is often associated with the best jedi saber users, such as Mace windu.


Part III Making Authentic Jedi Heros

To make an authentic Jedi hero, you do pretty much what I talked about in realism vs authenticity… You should one, consider what kind of traits that jedi has, what their level of abilities are, and two, if necessary, strengthen or weaken the powers to make it compatible with the game. For example… Episode 2 Anakin Skywalker. Ask yourself what kind of abilities you think that Jedi should have. I am going to start off with a Full Authentic setup, and then explain why I chose each power.

Anakin Skywalker:

Health: 115
Force Pool: 160-180

Force Jump: 2
Force Push: 2
Force Sense: 2
Grip: 1
Offense: 3 [With Red and Yellow stance]
Defense: 2
Deflect: 3
Force Block: 1

I’ll start off with saber stats and force pool. Ani didn’t show himself to be the most superior of defending characters, which is why I gave him defense 2, but I also gave him 160 force so that his ability to block blaster shots wasn’t completely destroyed. [Also because of the fact that Shmii skywalker was raped and impregnated by midichlorians, and his midi count was well over 9000!] The consequence of level 2 defenses is it will drain his force faster; even if he has more of it. I gave him offense 3 and deflect 3 is because he used Form V, which is an offensive technique. Grip 1 because I am sure he has used the darkside in the past at this point; but he hasn’t really mastered it. Sense 2 because sense 1 is really for the weakest of jedi, and it doesn’t fit ani very well, and also jump 2 because jump 3 is too good for him, but 1 is too weak.

Some of you might think this is too weak, others might think it’s too overpowered; it’s all relative. For example, if ani was up against a bunch of clones with rifle level 3’s, he would be toast. But up against a bunch of E5 level 1 battle droids, he would fair a good chance. Keep that in mind, overpowered-ness is not about how strong a class is, it’s about how much stronger over other classes it is.

Part IV: Indulge me

One of the annoying things about jedi, aside from when they are too overpowered, is when they are too bland.

A stereotypical Jedi Build,

Health: 100

Jump: 2
Push: 3
Pull: 3
Sense: 2
Forceblock: 3
Deflect: 1
Attack: 3
Defense: 3

I can’t tell you how much I’ve had it with the clichéd and overused Push-Jedi format. What I also dislike is when a Jedi get’s a single level 3 force power with maybe force sense on the side.

I can only speak for myself, but I like it when you mix it up with level 2 force powers, Hell, screw push and pull, lets just use Speed and mind trick, or maybe Force Blind and Deadly Sight. Do something INTERESTING.

Use of Generic Jedi in an FA

In general, I discourage the idea of multiple jedi in an FA; even worse, is multiple jedi against multiple jedi; it is by far the most boring kind of FA that can be made.

[ iNote: Unless you adhere to my advise in the above paragraphs]

The reason for this is because multiple-jedi against multiple jedi always ends in a contest to see who can get as many Back-whacks as possible. No one in the universe has the balls to fight someone head-on when they can get easy kills just by running and slashing at people behind. Worse yet, we’ve conformed to this kind of fighting by calling 1v1’s ‘Honor noobs’

[iNote; It makes it really easy to feel ok with back-whacking your enemy jedi/sith whenever possible, when it’s considered skillfull by the standards of the game to do so. In reality, all that it does is make the dueling system worthless; when less than 2 jedi are fighting eachother, Back-whacks always prevail.]

What about we conform to calling Back-whackers ‘skill-less cowards and scum’? I honestly prefer the latter. Atleast with gunners, backwacking isn’t fatal, you CAN turn around and return fire. [in most cases anyway]

Anyway… I am so off topic it’s not even funny. When dealing with multiple jedi, particularly generic jedi, I also recommend making it so that jedi become partitioned by their skill, rather than have each jedi an independent fighter, make it so that each has it’s own strengths and weaknesses. Jedi temple, though a poor example of this [the Moviebattles team really didn’t put enough emphasis into the differences of each form jedi] shows using ‘forms’ to put each jedi into a particular category. In my mind, you can make jedi classes based on 2 systems.

1) The Kotor System

The kotor system goes by the Jedi classes as prescribed in Kotor.

- Guardians + Marauders; Classified by High Defense and attack both against blasters and sabers, and strong acrobatic abilities, but weak to few force powers.
- Consolars + Sith lords/sages; Strong Force abilities, Weak Saber skills [For example, giving Consolars 200Fp and defense level 2 is very ‘consolar’ like. [unless you don’t give them any forcepowers]
- Sentinels + Assassins Classified by a mix of the two, sentinels have a balance of both skill and saber technique.
- Healers + Well… something. Kind of like consolars, but with more healing oriented force powers [Sense 3, Force Heal, Heal allies, etc.]

2) The Form System

The Form system classifies jedi based on saber forms, I am not going to explain each form, if you want to look them up, go to Wookieepedia; they have very comprehensive articles.

Either way, just like with gunners, giving jedi definite strengths and weaknesses rewards teamwork. [Just make sure that both teams need to use teamwork, because when one team can win by going solo, while the other HAS to use teamwork to win, the former team will win 9/10 times.]

[WorldsLargestIpod]

7) Balancing by slop fixing

This is short, sweet, and to the point. [so I hope] DON’T DO IT.

Balancing by slop fixing [or taking a sloppy approach to balancing] is when you simply make an FA bland after constant complaints about imbalance. For example, moving towards class uniformity, or weakening an entire team because of the fact that they are ‘overpowered’, or removing classes entirely because ‘eh they don’t work out as I thought’.

Even worse of all is when you decide to discontinue the work.

[iNote Do you know what that does for me? I have to spend another 2 weeks to 2 months on a lousy unbalanced map that sithlord refuses to remove because no updates were made! It’s HORRIBLE.]

I believe that in general, it is laziness that makes people make decisions that lead to imbalance and poor quality full authentic, you should have learned your lesson in the first place, that laziness isn’t going to solve your problems either. Ask people who complain about imbalance what it is specifically that causes problems, are people too fast, to armored? FIND OUT, and take the ACTIVE approach. Find the source, and fix it accordingly.

Sometimes the problem with an FA lies not with the characters but with the geography of the map. [I’ll discuss that in a later chapter] In which case you’re in for some fun on GTK radiant. I can’t honestly talk about maps because I am not an experienced mapper; if you want advise on maps, speak to the mbII team mappers, geniuses of the art of the game level like Mace Crusher and Darth Norman have experience with making it so that every piece of architecture in the map adds to the balance and the fun of the battle; have them look at your map and ask them what you need to do to make it better.


8) Many Vs. Few, a failing principal

Many Vs. Few is when you have a limit number of classes against an unlimited number of classes. The simple reality is that it can never be balanced; ever.

This isn’t an assumption, it’s a logically deduced fact; and unless Moviebattles makes some changes. [as I have suggested] the many vs. few principal will continue to result in FA’s that are never played, or played, and hated.

A good example of this principal in action is Trade Federation, obiwan and quigon against unlimited battle droids. On a server population of 4, it’s 2v2, qui and obi vs 2 battle droids, The jedi will win for almost certainty. [almost, meaning that there is a strong likely hood, but not impossibility] But if the server pop is 24, [like our glorious FA 24/7] it’s 2 jedi vs. 22 droids. The jedi have almost no hope of winning; it is IMPOSSIBLE in this mod to win against those odds unless you ninja it; but this is also unlikely, since the droids only have to guard 1 ship and 1 bottleneck.

[iNote; ninja-ing is the use of stealth to kill an enemy or complete and objective without others knowing]

With the many vs many principal, a 4 player server has 2 players against 2 players, assuming the FA is balanced. [And it will be if you apply my principals] You have a winner. In a 24 player server, you have 12 v 12, and you still have a winner. With the many vs. Few, there is usually a specific ‘balancing point’ for the server population, where obiwan and quigon have as much of a chance of winning as they do losing; but this is still a long shot.

The key is, the many vs few principal is a result of the TOTAL REALISM mentality. [See chapter 3 for a review] You MUST HAVE IT THIS WAY BECAUSE THAT’S THE WAY IT WAS IN THE MOVIES!!!! No, you don’t, no one cares. Trade fed was better off with the ambassador guards helping the jedi, it was more oriented for mbII fighting.

Even if in the movies it was 1 or a few vs. many, add some generics [plenty of generics for fun] So that you bring balance and interest to a game that simply can’t support this principal.

9) Tactical Positioning and it’s effect on Gameplay

As I said before, I’m not an expert mapper, but I do have some common sense, and I do know that the geography of the map impacts gameplay profoundly. [Even more so than an FA]

Consider the following elements in your Map.

1) Open Vs. Closed quarters.

Your map should try to be a mix, [and most maps are] Closed quarters is like Taintive, where as open quarters is like Arena. Open quarters tends to favor long range gunners, snipers, rifles, sometimes rockets. And closed quarters tends to favor short range weapons like Carbines, pistols, and light sabers. Closed quarters favors grenades heavily due to the fact that a grenade in a hall makes escaping difficult. [unless you are lucky and have a corner to roll around] These favoratisms are important, because it determines the usefull [and useless] ness of your FA characters. [It’s also the main reason that many CMP maps can’t be played in open mode.

A mix of these allows for you to have all sorts of FA classes with different weapons, all having some opportunity to do their greatest damage.

2) Cliffs, ledges, and bottomless pits, oh my.

Starwars has tons of them. And they are important, if your rebel team has to run across a bridge over a bottomless chasm; consider a railing, also consider that having grenades and explosives isn’t really the smartest idea. [Unless that’s the games objective] Never FORCE a team of gunners to cross a bridge with no railings where the enemy team has unlimited grenades and or a push jedi; it simply doesn’t work.

3) Alternate Routes

You should always strive for having 2 methods of attack in a game having 1 puts heavy favoritism in the defending team. [usually, not always] And having 4 or more spread the players out too thinly [and it makes the game rather long and the map harder to understand] Usually, there are 3 ways, [not all of them used] To win a game.

- Direct route is the fastest, but easiest to defend [for the enemy atleast]
- The indirect route is longer, sometimes with more ups and downs, but it’s usually safer.
- The Stealth root takes you through narrow but largely disregarded entrances and sometimes brings you dangerously close to an enemy objective, you can sneak in and end the game quickly, or drop a bomb and sabotage enemies. Of course, when this route IS defended, you don’t really have any way to get through.

4) Objective, Too hard or two easy.

There are many different reasons for why an objective can be too easy, so I won’t discuss them. You should get a ‘flavor in your mind’ [As my chemistry teacher says] of what results in an easy objective, verses what results in an impossible to achieve objective. For example, how long it takes to complete, how quick and accessible it is.

The best example of this is the Deathstar ‘Attack defend objective’ Leia is both an attack and defend objective, making it very difficult. You literally have to lead a [relatively weak] ‘leia’ through the halls of the death star, keep her from death, and bring her to the falcon. It’s attack, because you have to complete the objective in a given time frame or face defeat. It’s defend because you can’t let the objective be destroyed. This is a bad idea, it’s simply too difficult for one team to coordinate victory, and too easy for the other to achieve it.

The best example of an objective that is too hard is the outpost objective. It’s a very large donut map with an objective that moves from place to place; then you have to bring it to a consol that takes ages to hack. Even if outpost FA was balanced, [which It’s not] the objective can seldom be comleted unless you have a specific class like the jumping jedi force whore class.

[on another note, this ties into my chapter about the commando vs. fodder principal, don’t let victory HAVE fall in the hands of one class [it can be easier for a faster hacker maybe, but not much else] , even if that victory is achieved through objectives.

5) Vehicles

Different vehicles have different effects on gameplay, RC1 was the first [I think] build to have any serious vehicle maps; be wary of the effects of vehicles in the battle, make sure that there is a way to counter powerful vehicles, either with turrets or defensive bottlenecks. Vehicles are a lot like those special Fa force powers I talked about, know what they do before you add them.

6) Cover and defenses

This really isn’t a problem for most maps, but just make sure that you add cover for gunners on BOTH sides. ‘High ground’ [or an elevated position] Also counts as cover, since you can ‘move back’ so that enemies are out of range of you. [Infact, high ground is somewhat of the best cover that can be offered]

7) Accessibility

This only applies to maps that involve vehicles, droidekas, or SBDs. If you WANT that class to be able to get to where it wants to go, make sure that they can get anywhere they want. SBd’s can’t jump, and droidekas can’t go through tight doorways. This is a no brainer.

I’m also going to say what I said before about mapping and getting advise from chapter 7.

“Sometimes the problem with an FA lies not with the characters but with the geography of the map. [I’ll discuss that in a later chapter] In which case you’re in for some fun on GTK radiant. I can’t honestly talk about maps because I am not an experienced mapper; if you want advise on maps, speak to the mbII team mappers, geniuses of the art of the game level like Mace Crusher and Darth Norman have experience with making it so that every piece of architecture in the map adds to the balance and the fun of the battle; have them look at your map and ask them what you need to do to make it better.”

[WorldsLargestIpod]

10) Better in Every way

This chapter is actually unnecessary, but I wanted a perfect 10 chapters; and this chapter sort of sums up all of the FA stuff that I have talked about. It is also the most common problem in FA’s by far.

What does it mean?

It means what it says, when 1 class has NOTHING in it’s arsenal that is superior to another class. This includes reinforcements. For example, remember my real boba fett vs my real rebel class? The rebel class had NOTHING superior to boba fett, [not even reinforcements] As a consequence, there is no hope what so ever of balance between the two.

For example;

Clone Trooper:
Health: 100
Armor: 100
Clone Rifle: 3
Stamina: 3
Blobs: 3
Reinforcements: 1

Security Droid:
Health: 50
Armor: 40
E-11: 2
Reinforcements: 1

The clone trooper beats out the battle droid in armor, firepower, and reinforcements, also lets assume that they are of the same speed [or the clone might even be faster]

Keep in mind that even if a class isn’t better in every way [maybe it has a few weak traits over a class] does not mean that it is can’t be unbalanced. And classes that are weaker in every way DO have a chance of winning, but it’s slim; and should not be taken at all.

Does it have to be better in EVERY way for it to be better in every way?

Actually no, better in every way is actually a bad term to use. If 2 classes are equal in a few categories, but Class A is superior in every OTHER respect, then class B has no advantages, and therefore is unlikely to be able to beat Class A.

If classes are meant to have weaknesses isn’t this counter intuitive to what you said about diverse classes?

No, because I suggested having strengths and weaknesses. The BIEW issue only concerns when 1 class has EVERYTHING that a class has either equal to their strength or better.

What is the exception?

There is one exception to this rule, and that is when 2 criteria are met;

1) the BIEW occurs within 2 classes of the same team
2) there are less slots for the class that is BIEW

For example, you can have 1 class with total equal or superiority over another on the same team, for example, SBD and Super SBD, but make sure that there are more SBDs available in slots than super SBDs.


And guess what. You’ve just read all 25 pages of the 10 things never to do in an FA.

[obiwan3001]

Holy **************
Honestly it seems alright from skimming the thing but honestly i dont have enough years in my life to read that..
Atleast you should break it down to a short formate ext..Wrong way then Right way.

[WorldsLargestIpod]

Holy **************
Honestly it seems alright from skimming the thing but honestly i dont have enough years in my life to read that..
Atleast you should break it down to a short formate ext..Wrong way then Right way.

Trust me i thought about that... it would be 10X as long if i did it that way.

It's very late, so i only wanted to just post the words down now. Later when i have time i'll color code them into their chapters, bolden, underline, and all that jazz. Right now it's just Text, but i'll make it FABULOUS

[Killer]

tl;dr...

[WorldsLargestIpod]

tl;dr...


Annd.... WHAT?

Ps... I really hope this thread doesn't die in a matter of days, i put in endless hours of work. [poorly spent but never the less] i deserve recognition!

[The Swashbuckler]

I skimmed through it. :p Maybe it'll help some people who've never made an FA before but feel like giving it a shot, but ultimately, making good FA's is more about constant testing, tweaking, and perfecting. If it's fun, testers will want to test it, and you'll have no trouble getting it all balanced out. If it's not, it's best to just start the entire FA over with a new idea.

[Palin]

Liked it. Deserves a pin somewhere. And Judson what happened to the cover-oriented map you were making?

[Metaguardian]

This should be stickied. Great write-up Ipod.;)

[The Swashbuckler]

The MAN map? Putting it on indefinite hold for the time being, until I come up with a better idea for the FA. Unless you mean the Hot Fuzz map I was wanting to make, which I'm waiting for the hitscan weapons before I start on (as that's another case where I'd want to test the FA setup before starting on the map itself).

[Killer]

Finally finished reading it, and I agree. This deserves a sticky. :D

[Palin]

The Imperial Destroyer map FA.

[AlphaFA]

Sigh.
Make your own goddamn FA iPod. ¬_¬

Use HOTFO as a base, seeing as ping will let the CMP do what ever we need to do in order to update it.

[Plasma]

making good FA's is more about constant testing, tweaking, and perfecting.

What he said :p

[=Someone=]

No offense, but imo it's kinda pointless when people walk before they learned to crawl.

Make a few decent (or controversial :p) FA's of your own first, and I bet my admin perms this write-up will look a lot differently.

[WorldsLargestIpod]

No offense, but imo it's kinda pointless when people walk before they learned to crawl.

Make a few decent (or controversial :p) FA's of your own first, and I bet my admin perms this write-up will look a lot differently.

Do you mean a siege script? because that would require me making my own map.

Other than that, i have made suggestions of what to do in a full authentic before. I sent an email to Yzmo or somone else a long time ago about what i think needs to be done to Endor; my ideas for class setups weren't incorporated completely, but i saw some things in that full authentic setup [Don't complain to me about the map, i honestly had no clue about how it would look] that couldn't have been added by chance.

As for using HOTFO, it doesn't need an overhaul; unless you simply feel that the FA is too bland. It's actually decently balanced but a few things on the IMP team need some tweaking.

[Namely, the unfair advantage that the reborn pistoleers has in some regions of the map, and also the generic reborns being BIEW over the generic jedi.

Are you asking me to just submit a complete overhaul of a seige script?

If the answer is yes, maybe i can make it my mission to start working on that today after school, and also work on spoofing up this guide.

[=Someone=]

Do you mean a siege script? because that would require me making my own map.
I mean a 2-3 full-blown FAs, with new, unique classes, new models and skins, interesting general concepts, balanced setups and everything else that should be in there.


Other than that, i have made suggestions of what to do in a full authentic before. I sent an email to Yzmo or somone else a long time ago about what i think needs to be done to Endor; my ideas for class setups weren't incorporated completely, but i saw some things in that full authentic setup [Don't complain to me about the map, i honestly had no clue about how it would look] that couldn't have been added by chance.
Making suggestions is always easy. I could tell Rupert Murdoch what to do all day, doesn't mean I could do his job better than he does.


As for using HOTFO, it doesn't need an overhaul; unless you simply feel that the FA is too bland. It's actually decently balanced but a few things on the IMP team need some tweaking.
Try it regardless! It's an awesome map that allows for many different settings - just use your imagination. ;)


Are you asking me to just submit a complete overhaul of a seige script?
No, I suggest you do a few actually.


If the answer is yes, maybe i can make it my mission to start working on that today after school, and also work on spoofing up this guide.
About your guide: I wouldn't mind to sticky if you could improve a few things, I'll post them later once I get back from my daily chores.

[RebelScum]

Great post, Ipod!

I'd love to see this stickied. I'll be using this for a while, and I'm sure others will, too.:)

[Mashirafen]

I haven't read all of it yet, but I will and I'll make an FA sticking strictly to these principles at some point, see how it goes. From what I've seen, the FA I'm making (or rather, have made and am fixing the weapon replacements I messed up) follows this pretty well, but we'll see how it goes.

[Shadriss]

Executive Summary, please. I'm too busy to read all of that. :)

Actually, I did. But seriously, you spend too long on specific examples than you do on the actual point you are trying to make... which sometimes, you neglect to do entirely. You first point on HP/AP balance for example. You give examples of a balanced and unbalanced setup, but neglect to say WHY each is an example of the situation. You just throw it out, say this one is this, that one is that, and then move on.

I know it sounds like I contradicted myself there, but make the examples to the point and clear on what that point is, and use less of them. Clear, short, and simple is the key to understanding here. You have the beginnings of a good guide there, but it needs to be cleaned up in this respect more than any other.

Also, as S1 said, make your own before you instruct others how to make... adds to credibility.

[WorldsLargestIpod]

I'll make HOTFO seige script... But don't expect it to be done anytime soon; May is a Hectic month due to SAT II's, AP exams, Nyssma, and a research project.

If i ask anyone on this forum for help, i'm not a hypocrit; i've said in that guide many a time that conferring with others ensures that you don't do something unintentionally radical, or put innacuracies or bugs into your Seige Script.

I'm also thinking of doing an arena Seige script in ze future ; except for the fact that the problem with arena is more a Chapter 9 problem, which i have no control over.

[=Someone=]

Alright, so here's the deal, if you want this to become a sticky, please turn it into a real guide first.

Here's a few things I'd ask you to consider:

- Make it short.
Get to the point quickly, and don't ramble.
In one part, you've mention the word "ninja'd" just to waste a whole sentence on explaining it later - if using a term requires you to add a lenghty explanation for it, pick a different, simpler term instead, especially if the explanation, like in this case, doesn't add anything substantial to the guide anyways.
In another part, you went completely off-topic about jedi. Talk about stuff FA makers need to know and have to keep in mind instead, like the fact that drains change from build to build, f.i.

- Offer solutions:
In one of your sections, interclass equality, you spoke lenghty about how bad it is that Raxus has cool classes on one side, and uncool ones on the other. Not only would 1 single sentence suffice for that, instead of wasting an entire paragraph - it has no real value to begin with. From the perspective of an FA maker, you don't really explain why one side is actually cooler than the other. Is it the skins, the weapons, the abilities? Remember, each of those are parameters an FA maker has to make decisions for and you're either guiding him to make the right ones, or you're not doing a good job.

Instead of just analyzing Raxus - everyone can do that - please offer solutions. Keeping classes equally cool sounds all nice and dandy, but try to explain how to actually make cool classes and ultimately, how to make both teams equally cool with the means an FA maker has at his disposal (skins, models, mbch-values, etc...) and, best, in a way even a novice could understand.

- Make logical sections:
As an introduction to the 10th point, you write that you had no idea what to add there. Ironically, you mentioned a lot of good ideas that would fit there yourself, f.i. lazyness.

A lot of the CMP FAs I see have the first person view of their guns set up wrongly, are using a regular E-11 model as a shotgun, use boring skins and bland class setups (sometimes just copied from another FA), etc... Talk about how mediocre effort only yields mediocre attention from the players (and keep in mind to offer solutions - f.i. changing the WeaponBasedOff-parameter in the weapon override will likely fix the misaligned first person model). Imho, it's all about aiming for a clean and wholesome FA, where the FA maker has to try and control every aspect in his grasp.

Another big issue that falls into this category is that two key elements of FA making are left out entirely: research and the basic outline. I personally still admire Az for pulling out the Wraith setup for ComTower from nowhere - it's EU, fits the map perfectly, is fresh and unique, has cool characters and allows for a good amount of freedom with each class. Keep in mind that this is the stuff that defines everything else in the entire FA. Which classes can you use, which abilities, which weapons, etc. - it all depends on the basic outline.

Moreso, the entire fascination people will (or won't) develop with the FA depends on that basic outline. Back when we worked on B18, Acid once told me that he believes the best FA would be a mix between the class variety and authenticity of Arena and some of the wackyness and fun factor of Rusty's Kashyyyk, which later became what you still play on JT today. I'd bet not even a tenth of the community would even know the map in FA till now if we didn't pick Acid's setup. Bottom line: Help people to create a good basic outline and you've already made sure their FA won't be ignored.

On a related note, finding reference (for the story background) is crucial here as well, so some helpful links to good SW-universe resources would really round a guide like this up nicely.

To close this one, try and combine elements of several sections into one big point: I'm mainly aiming at all the chunks about variation. At one point you emphasize the value of FA-only force powers, at an entirely different occasion, you speak about sterotypical jedi builds and bland classes and finally, you dedicate a whole point to the BIEW concept. It's all about variation, so why not label it like that? After all, it affects all classes in an FA anyways, not just jedi and most of all, it is crucial to get your FA played to begin with.

- Keep it "All Killer, No Filler":
Offer facts instead of opinions or vague advice.
At one point, you talk about how optimal health values in MB range from 25-500. Might as well remove that and talk about your cat's breakfast there as a range of 475 isn't going to help anyone decide. (A good health value, imho, is 200 btw, being a rough average in open mode as well.)
Also, the whole BIEW section is written way more complex than need be.

- Gram'ma.
Let somebody who is adept in the english language proof-read it please. Currently, there's quite a few spelling errors (f.i. "principal" instead of "principle", "modo" instead of "motto") and some left-overs where you rewrote parts of sentences in it.

[Shadriss]

Ready to assist you, as S1 notes Ipod... just let me know what you need.

[The Swashbuckler]

The Imperial Destroyer map FA.
Ohh, right, my bad. I'm not entirely sure what I'm allowed to say of it at this point other than that it's "done" until we do some more testing. There were a couple more visual fixes and one hopeful weapon tweak I was hoping to make to it, but even without those, it's as finished as it could possibly be for RC1. It should be easier to update it now that I'm a tester, so there's always a chance it'll turn up fully completed in RC2.

[WorldsLargestIpod]

Ready to assist you, as S1 notes Ipod... just let me know what you need.

I need the EXACT effects on all of the FA forcepowers [Wikia doesn't have them, i asked Azu and he referred me to it, and checked it to get nothing] I want to have as many of them as possible in HOFTO, [Except for FD, there is no balancing that force power against gunners in it's current stage]

Spelling and Grammar... i can do that later, i can't split up and have half of me work on the seige script while half of me works on the FA. I'll keep working on the seige script untill 6:30 maybe 7:00, [As much as i can do anyway] After that i'm going to work on Fixing up this guide to meet S1's standards.

That's for the support and criticism, it's what makes things better.


__________________________________________

[Mashirafen]

I could quickly go over it for grammar and spelling if you need me to iPod.

[WorldsLargestIpod]

Knock yourself out, but make sure that i can see where my mistakes are if you are pointing them out. it might be easier to just Copy the entire document then email it to me.

[Shadriss]

I need the EXACT effects on all of the FA forcepowers [Wikia doesn't have them, i asked Azu and he referred me to it, and checked it to get nothing] I want to have as many of them as possible in HOFTO, [Except for FD, there is no balancing that force power against gunners in it's current stage]

I'll see what I can do - getting that kind of info can be like pulling teeth. I had to go through te same thing for most of the Class buyables myself not too long ago. Which reminds me, I need to finish up Soldier...

[WorldsLargestIpod]

I also need to know what the Force Degeneration is for force speed.

[Mashirafen]

Well I know for Speed 3 it's 25 on use and 5 every 3(or maybe 5, not sure) seconds from then on. I'll test that out too. ;)

[WorldsLargestIpod]

Update, I've done the Team Defs for Imps and Rebels, as well as an idea of how they are going to be exactly, now i just need to do the main part of it, the player details...

[mcrib!]

if you wrote a book nobody would buy it

[Pada V4.5]

I would..

[WorldsLargestIpod]

Owned! [Unless he's being sarcastic]

[Killer]

I would buy it too... :D

[WorldsLargestIpod]

All but 1 of the imperial classes for my FA are completed, i'm excited. :P

[Mashirafen]

I would buy your book too.

[WorldsLargestIpod]

Update;

All Classes and Stats are finished, all i need to do is get 1 more permission for skins, do some icon editing [which should take maybe 1 or 2 days] and then do some saber editing.

Then betatest and release.

Unfortunately, i cannot betatest this on CoR server.

And ANOTHER thing... I've revamped the first and second page of the guide so that they are color coded and what not.

[AlphaFA]

Update;

All Classes and Stats are finished, all i need to do is get 1 more permission for skins, do some icon editing [which should take maybe 1 or 2 days] and then do some saber editing.

Then betatest and release.

Unfortunately, i cannot betatest this on CoR server.

And ANOTHER thing... I've revamped the first and second page of the guide so that they are color coded and what not.

Skins? You dont need permissions to make skins, plus noone will play the skin in open mode so it doesnt matter really. And no icon 'editing' add your own, dont edit the normal MB icons.

[=Someone=]

Skins? You dont need permissions to make skins, plus noone will play the skin in open mode so it doesnt matter really. And no icon 'editing' add your own, dont edit the normal MB icons.
He's not making skins, he's asking for permission to use some. Common courtesy to ask before using somebody else's work.
...and, of course, can and should he edit the normal MB icons, that's why Plas and I released it to the public.

[AlphaFA]

He's not making skins, he's asking for permission to use some. Common courtesy to ask before using somebody else's work.
...and, of course, can and should he edit the normal MB icons, that's why Plas and I released it to the public.

No I ment like taking the original Stormie icon and changing it slightly so it'll look weird in open. o.o

[UL-532]

Alpha, I'm pretty sure Ipod's smart enough to know to rename icons he changes...

[=Someone=]

No I ment like taking the original Stormie icon and changing it slightly so it'll look weird in open. o.o
From what I know, Ipod's only making new icons for those skins in his FA that haven't got any at all (neither in any official map, nor the CMP) and I'm sure he's careful not to overwrite existing stuff in general, seeing how we both keep reminding him of it. :p

[AlphaFA]

Still. D;

Just imagen it, someone making a map and none of the icons for open matched the icons for models. It'll be like a pick and mix....

[=Someone=]

Still. D;

Just imagen it, someone making a map and none of the icons for open matched the icons for models. It'll be like a pick and mix....
I think we slowly start to sound like worried parents. :p

It's time to let go. Have faith in what we've taught him so far. ;)