BP bar substitution

[Vitjor Melkalis]

the BP bar system in the jedis is one of the causes of the short duration of the jedi vs jedi fights.

so i sugest a remodelation of the BP bar. instead of using the BP bar to store defence mana why didnt delete that defense mana feature and transform the BP bar with a power accumulating function? for example when a jedi is fighting a sith his power would raise while the battle takes course. if a sith reaches his maximum power he become possessed by a battle fury wich allows him to stab hits that could break any jedi defense (take the example of luke when fighting vader in ROTJ. when he gets furious he attacks vader completely MAD!).
If a jedi reaches is force climax, he becomes One With The Force wich gives the jedi a state of complete unification with the force that allows him to create a really powerfull saber defense and quick counterattack moves that could even defend red stance stabs easily. when the jedi/sith kills a/the jedi/sith the BP bar lows to the minimum zero and he became normal again.
these powers wouldnt affect other warrior classes. the jedi ''mega-defence'' is only efective against other jedi.
so this the classes could remain balanced!

plz guys reconsider this idea because i think its really good and cool!

[TehJumpingJawa]

Just to clarify, is this what you are proposing for the bp behaviour? :-
for this example, there is 1 jedi (A) and 1 sith (B)

bp starts at zero for both A & B.

when A attacks B, B's bp increases.
when B attacks A, A's bp increases
when A's bp reaches max, his defence becomes impenetrable, and his counter attacks unblockable.
when B's bp reaches max, his attacks become unstoppable.
when A or B dies, both bp's return to zero.

These are the problems I can see :-

How would this work for multiple jedi,
What about if you turn and run,
What if some1 else kills the jedi you are fighting against,
What prevents 2 players on the same team super-charging each others bp (by sparing with 1 another) before entering a fight with the enemy.
Where is the emphasis to attack, I see ppl simply defending until BP is full, and then instantly killing the other player.
How would this incorporate combat with gunners, and bp drain from jumping and other athletics?

tbh, I think the current system works great, (atleast for me ;D)

[Dingo Dave]

Fall to the darkside you would young one.

[Vitjor Melkalis]

first, the attacks or defenses wouldnt became unbreakable but simply REALLY difficult to break (if u caught him backwards you will kill a jedi easily) and the sith attacks are not unblocable but really strong and quick.

against multiple jedis the case is simple: when u kill a jedi/sith whoever he is or whereever he is, your BP stats low to zero because the powers have already made his function. if he wouldnt kill any jedi/sith after 2 minutes his stats will low to normal. im not overpowering jedis but simply make jedi vs sith fights more realistic and difficult. the defenses against blaster would not be raised even when the jedi reaches the One With The Force stage. and in the case of siths, his attacks may boost but his defenses low since he is completely possessed by his own rage. a saber blow can kill a mando anyway and more powerfull strikes would not affect the balance beteewn classes.

ok lets make some situations: a jedi is fighting a sith and the sith reaches the BP point. and he starts stabbing like a mad man. the best solution for the jedi is to run around him trying trying to found a breach when the sith is possessed. of course, when possessed, a sith will be more fast and deadly but with lower defenses the jedi can caught him more easily with a quick stab.

now, if the jedi reaches the point his defense will became really strong but its attacks will remain the same. also the jedi have much more difficulty in reaching the point that a sith.
jedis and siths would get BP points by defending blows but the sith also gets points if he his sabered; the damage suffered determines the points won. also when the sith reaches the point he will recover 20 health. dont start saying that i want to overpower the sith because i really hate sith.

ok last answer, ''what would prevent a guy from the same team supercharging another by hitting him?'', the answer is simple: only enemies can charge your BP bar by attacking u. its possible to program.

[Dingo Dave]

This sounds extremely like a combat triggred force rage, and therefore darkside. I actually like the way it is.

[Dacks Zero]

For some reason this reminds me of Dragonball Z/Yu Yu Hakusho :cool:

But seriously, this sounds very...."ubering" the fights. Currently, they last aslong as your skill is. If you are skilled, you'll last longer and I'm not talking about levels.

With the current system, there is an incentive to attack and defend. With attacks you lower his BP Bar and with defending you don't get killed. After 1-2 swings you'll have to start to attack, cuz otherwise you'd be left with no BP and die by one swing (guard break).

The System even incorporates low-level saberists vs high-leveled saberists. If your skill is good enoughm, you can possibly beat the high-leveled jedi (Luke vs Vader / Obi-Wan vs Maul). This balances newcomers to veterans (players who have stayed more than 10 rounds on one map).

In your System, it's all about reaching that "uber" state whereas even then it won't be easy to kill your opponent. Turning BP into XP and going Super Saiyan-like Jedi just to be able to win one fight.

We've been getting a lot of praise for the current system and we feel that it's very good as it is. A bit of perfectioning here and there, but a totally new system (like you are proposing) will have to show us a damn lot, before we accept it.

Thanks for your input, but totally altering the System isn't-to-hardly going to happen. :cool:

[ACiDuS]

Pretty much agreeing with dacks. I think the system is great, and tweaking will make it even stronger.

[Alesh]

A pity we can't see the opponent sweating and breathing hard to know when he has low BP... it's the best saber system i've seen anyway, the only one which has something better is the die by the sword one... and while it gave you total control of the sword, it was a real mess to move the sword with the mouse (with the sword moving in 3d and the mouse in 2d...).

[Vitjor Melkalis]

hmmm, i think u are right... still cant u raise the longevity of the BP bar? sometimes its too quick to get drained.
one thing that u guys could make is, when a jedi is defending bounces he could walk backwards automaticly, just to get more realistic.

still the saber fights are far to be perfect. im not criticising the system, wich is excelent, im criticising the moves of the players when defending. in the movies, when a jedi is fighting a sith, the defense moves are not simple defense positions. usually to defend saber bounces, jedis use attacks to defend the enemy bounces and not static defense positions. what im sugesting is a complete remodelation of the jedi moves. i know, i know its REALLY DIFFICULT to remodelate completely 10000 (or more) moves but if u guys worked on that..... the fights would get perfect....

[CerberuS]

i think razorace and Keshire are working on putting more block animations in the next OJP build - as MBII's saber system is based on OJP's one (and Keshire is on the MBII team), those anims will then probably also be available here :)

[Alesh]

They will eventually do block wich looks right, but for now they are focusing in the gameplay (that would be looks since the blocking would be the same).

[Vitjor Melkalis]

ive just one thing to say and i will say it on the next post.

[Vitjor Melkalis]

Hooray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ACiDuS]

i know its REALLY DIFFICULT to remodelate completely 10000 (or more)

wtf is remodelating?

[Vitjor Melkalis]

dont u know english? remodelate= remake.

[Keshire]

hahaha. Ya let them work on the balanced system. My job is to inject some cinematic movie-like anims into the game.

Blocks:
To cover every angle I can. Currently there are only five possible blocking angles. top and four diagonals. I've added four more to the front, I've added some to the sides, and a couple of back ones. Currently blocks are single frames and bounce from one frame to the next (causing them to spaz). I'm adding transitions from one block to another, and to and from the start position.

Scripted locks will also show some cinematic blocks but uncontrolled by the player. As seen from my obi-wan vs Darth maul anim thats been posted around.

[Dingo Dave]

pleeeaaaaase post a link keshire pleeeaseee.....................

Or is it an easy thing to find.

If a lock is scripted, how do you decide the winner?

[Keshire]

how do you decide the winner

There is none. I'm doing them so they always end in a draw.

*edit* and I'd post the link but the AOTCTC site burned up all their bandwidth and I was storing the gifs there.

[Dingo Dave]

So would that be a lock with both people left standing or both thrown to the floor

[Keshire]

Standing. Hopefully AOTCTC should be back up at the end of the month.

[ACiDuS]

dont u know english? remodelate= remake.

That is clearly one of the funniest posts ever :D

Sorry vitjor, but remodelate is actually not a word at all. I think perhaps you mean reanimate, or remodel?

Sorry for being pedantic. :o

I'd love to see these scripted locks. Sounds good kesh

[Keshire]

Ah a new month of bandwidth.

Darth Maul (http://www.aotctc.com/forums/files/darth_maul.gif)
Obi Wan (http://www.aotctc.com/forums/files/obi_wan.gif)

This is the two sides of the anim. In-game they'll match up perfectly frame for frame.

[Keshire]

Sorry vitjor, but remodelate is actually not a word at all.

Not an English word at least.

[=Profcorron=]

Cool.

I got them both on the screen but they were out of time and they both stabed in the opposite direction, lol

[Vitjor Melkalis]

really good those anims! i must congratulate you guys! so the saber defences will consist in that kind of moves??? if yes, GREAT! :D :D im really impressed! keep up the good work!

[jdtech]

Yeah, we need more twirly-wirly, like they do in the Movies. (I'm sure that's a quote from somewhere ;)) Jedi always spin their saber around after or during they are fighting. Something I have practiced for hours using hard canes in our back garden! ;) I've had many a duel with them... :rolleyes:

Cheers,
John

[Darth Bamse]

Ah a new month of bandwidth.

Darth Maul (http://www.aotctc.com/forums/files/darth_maul.gif)
Obi Wan (http://www.aotctc.com/forums/files/obi_wan.gif)

This is the two sides of the anim. In-game they'll match up perfectly frame for frame.

Did I say you own? No, don't think so.

You own!

[=Profcorron=]

Yeah, we need more twirly-wirly, like they do in the Movies. (I'm sure that's a quote from somewhere ;)) Jedi always spin their saber around after or during they are fighting. Something I have practiced for hours using hard canes in our back garden! ;) I've had many a duel with them... :rolleyes:

Cheers,
John
Fun wasn't it. But yep more twilly moves would make it cooler, When I did stick duels i alwas did Flurishes for fun and so do the jedi in movies, watch episode 1 when qui-gons fighting Darth Maul.