View Full Version : Toys for the gunners...
Azuvector
08-12-2007, 04:31
Shotguns
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A lot of people have seen this image already, as it's fairly old, but it's a picture of the FA-only shotgun-style blaster weapon. It's unique in a few aspects, those chiefly being the obvious shotgun-style spread of each shot, and the high damage up close and low damage far away, as well as a unique anti-Jedi ability: since the shots all impact at once, a Jedi generally isn't able to block more than two or three of them each shot... So they're quite rough on saberists.
And yeah, Dia Passik on CommTower FA has gotten ahold of one of these, next patch(Along with a slight nerf to the Elite Stormtrooper on Imps.). ;)
Concussion Rifle
(http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=golancr1eu2.jpg)
The BaseJKA Concussion Rifle returns in FA-only, with some JK1-style tweaks(Primary-fire is JK1 style, with high damage and knockback as well as massive ammo consumption. Secondary fire is JK3 style, low damage and knockdowns at close range.).
Shield Discharge
(http://img110.imageshack.us/my.php?image=concussionriflexu1.jpg)
The first real change to Deka gameplay in a few builds, in both FA and Open, Dekas can now purchase the ability to discharge a large amount of their shield energy in a zero-damage blast around them that shoves people on the ground backwards, but knocks down people who're in the air. It mainly serves as an anti-Jedi defense, having little use against gunners. (Incidentally, there've been some tweaks to how Deka firepower and ammo recharging works, which makes them less capable of sustained firing over a long period of time in some configurations.).
SBD Laser Cannon
[URL=http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sbdlaser2pv4.jpg]
Inspired by Republic Commando, some SBDs in FA-only have picked up a charge-up Laser Cannon that behaves similarly to a B17 Blob.
That's amazing. :eek: I... love you...
eGL|Darth.Hunter
08-12-2007, 20:14
Yayyy..... Movie Battles 2: Return of the Flechette :D
Some very nice innovations, looking forward to them!
master yoda
08-12-2007, 20:24
I would like to give the shotgun a try, looks like fun :)
Angrenost
08-12-2007, 20:25
Nice!
If properly balanced I don't see a reason why the shotgun and the SBD laser cannon couldn't be introduced to open mode as well.
Dirk Lightstar
08-12-2007, 20:42
Do you get only a set number of discharges, or is it rechargeable?
Victin Halcyon
08-12-2007, 21:24
Game already revolves around knockdown too much. No need to introduce more ways of knocking down into open.
The Swashbuckler
08-12-2007, 21:46
SBD charged blast is FA-only? :cry:
Ah well. Still glad to know it's making it in. Also like the new deka shield ability. Hope that conc rifle is everything I could dream of, though.
Now we just need the rail detonator...
Bruce Campbell
08-12-2007, 22:17
You had me at Shotgun.
Azuvector
08-12-2007, 22:34
Return of the Flechette
Just to cover the obvious misunderstanding that a lot of people seem to have, the spread-blaster/shotgun/whatever-you-want-to-call-it, behaves nothing like the BaseJKA Flechette weapon other than that it shoots multiple projectiles. It's mechanics are modeled more after the shotgun-blaster that appeared with the Dark Trooper in Battlefront 1.
If properly balanced I don't see a reason why the shotgun and the SBD laser cannon couldn't be introduced to open mode as well.
Some people really don't like the idea of a shotgun-style weapon in Open mode, largely for canon-related reasons. Me, personally, I'd love to give it to ARCs in Open. :P Probably not gonna happen though.
Do you get only a set number of discharges, or is it rechargeable?
It uses Shield Energy like ammo. So, using it is fairly risky in several ways: If you're getting shot, you may run out of Shield Energy(It uses a fair chunk: Generally speaking, from full shield power, you can use the Discharge once with Shield 1, twice with Shield 2, or three times with Shield 3, until you're totally out of shield energy.), likewise if you use it, you have a huge chunk of your shield taken out. (But, it's guaranteed not to kill you directly, unlike what a Jedi's saber will do to you.) All in all, it makes room for other Deka playstyles than what presently exist.
Just too bad that things like the SBD Laser Cannon are just for FA. :confused:
It was originally slated for Open mode too, but as cool as the Republic Commando-style weapon is, it behaves very much like a B17 blob(Albeit with some nerfs in comparison), and no one really wanted more knockdown stuff in Open, and couldn't think of any real, viable alternative mechanics that remained true to the original spirit of the gun.
Furry_rodian
08-12-2007, 23:04
Shield discharge looks like fun.
Wildebeest
08-12-2007, 23:08
Some people really don't like the idea of a shotgun-style weapon in Open mode, largely for canon-related reasons. Me, personally, I'd love to give it to ARCs in Open. :P Probably not gonna happen though.
Make that a "definitely not gonna happen". Suffice it to say, there was an explosion within the private forums when Azu suggested that we put a Shotgun in Open. (Not that I'm complaining. I would hate to see the Shotgun in Open. Keeping it FA-only was a good compromise.)
Assassin
09-12-2007, 01:00
Out of curiosity:
Can you overide the shotgun blast effect?
Azuvector
09-12-2007, 01:07
Out of curiosity:
Can you overide the shotgun blast effect?
The new weapon types(Shotguns, Concussion Rifles, etc) all need weapon overrides to look proper visually, else you'd be using an E-11 with shotgun effects. The actual blaster bolts can also be overridden, and in fact already are(They're actually 'shorter' than normal blaster bolts.), in the FAs they're used in.
You can definitely change their colour or something, or whatever, though, same as any other gun in FA.
agentoo8
09-12-2007, 01:21
Awwwweesomeeee
The Swashbuckler
09-12-2007, 01:51
It was originally slated for Open mode too, but as cool as the Republic Commando-style weapon is, it behaves very much like a B17 blob(Albeit with some nerfs in comparison), and no one really wanted more knockdown stuff in Open, and couldn't think of any real, viable alternative mechanics that remained true to the original spirit of the gun.
I'm a bit curious regarding this now. Does it not force the SBD to crouch down for a short time as in Republic Commando? Because that's honestly what I wanted to see. Something with the damage and knockdown similar to B17 blob, but that forces you to buy ammo for it (as with the current blob) and forces you to remain still while firing (as with the PLX, for instance).
Soo...beautiful....soo...violent...
Back2Murder
09-12-2007, 10:37
aah great, make deka's even stronger.
I love the shotgun :)
The things posted are all fun, but my favorite by far is the Shotgun. A shame it can't be in open for canon reasons, but it's a very fun weapon to use in the FAs it's in.
I'm reaaaally starting to like Azuvector
KazeYama
10-12-2007, 22:03
Put Conc Rifle in open mode. SRSLY I WANT IT! BH need a scoped conc rifle, or give ARCs one.
I'm sad to see that there's been no addition of a heat seeking projectile rifle bullet :(
Monopato
10-12-2007, 22:20
I think i fell i love with the shotgun :o
That shotgun is going to cause me to commit many GoW inspired kills. :x
with the shotgun, you no longer need to pray when you spray.
"DODGE THIS!"
'nuff said.
"DODGE THIS!"
'nuff said.
You will need dodge eight
:eek:
Azuvector
11-12-2007, 01:52
You will need dodge eight
:eek:
Five or ten, actually, depending on shotgun level. :)
Level 1 & 2 shoot 5 bolts, level 3 shoots 10 bolts per shot.
Level 1 is really slow-firing, level 2 & 3 are fast(for a shotgun, meaning, still slow) firing.
Five or ten, actually, depending on shotgun level. :)
Level 1 & 2 shoot 5 bolts, level 3 shoots 10 bolts per shot.
Level 1 is really slow-firing, level 2 & 3 are fast(for a shotgun, meaning, still slow) firing.
Lol, Give it to arcs on open, or beta test to see. I mean, Arcs have ****ty pistols >.>, and the rockets aren't good alone...
:eek:
Numba 1 Stunna
11-12-2007, 01:56
I remember some 1 vs 1 with Azu when he had the shotgun and dexterity. It was godly, you can jump above someone and totally blast their dome off.
Shotguns are never going into open though.
I remember some 1 vs 1 with Azu when he had the shotgun and dexterity. It was godly, you can jump above someone and totally blast their dome off.
Shotguns are never going into open though.
/sad ;c
Yeah, Release this as a new build :eek: . Get rid of b19. Let's put it in the back of our minds. Like gay sex. Forget it :eek:
I would love to see assorments of new weapons for some classes, and an easy-11 tone down \ level limit for some classes...
WhiteShark
11-12-2007, 02:08
Is that some kind of laser shotgun? Because I hope it isn't. :x
Is that some kind of laser shotgun? Because I hope it isn't. :x
No offense, but did you look at the picture and read the discription :x
WhiteShark
11-12-2007, 14:32
No offense, but did you look at the picture and read the discription :xI wasn't too sure, even though it did say "shotgun style blaster weapon", so I asked.
Are you flippin' serious :|
Keep in mind the shotgun and it's blast effects will look like whatever the FA mapper wants. It can even look like a shotgun from real life if you wanted. The laser shotgun effects are more for certain Star Wars themed maps where it makes more sense for it to be a laser-based weapon. Like nearly every weapon in MB, you can overwrite it to look like whatever you want.
Dirk Lightstar
13-12-2007, 00:55
Will the shots bounce or what?
Azuvector
13-12-2007, 01:00
Will the shots bounce or what?
Only if they hit something that would make say, an E-11 shot bounce. (Forcefields, strong windows, lightsabers, etc.) Regular walls? No.
WorldsLargestIpod
16-12-2007, 05:53
These weapons seem interesting....
I was wondering, for the shotgun, is it going to be an ammo chunk consumer like a charged pistol shot, or is it shogun fire, reload, shotgun fire, reload.
I'd recommend the latter for level 1 and 2, maybe 2 shots for level 3.
So azu, are you going to add sonic blasters next?
Geonosians deserve rights too.
a gun that shoots some kind of shockwave-like projectile which has the effects of push 3 and causes some damage would be cool as an FA only weapon for Geonosians (or in other situations). It could do like 25 damage and push 3, but, unlike push 3, you'd be pushed and knocked over no matter what... except you have to be hit by the actual projectile, not a wide arc like push 3. I'd say give it splash damage (since it seems to have some in themovies), but then it would be considered overpowered.
Azuvector
16-12-2007, 08:14
I was wondering, for the shotgun, is it going to be an ammo chunk consumer like a charged pistol shot, or is it shogun fire, reload, shotgun fire, reload.
It eats chunks of ammo. IIRC the Battlefront 1 weapon behaved similarly, and it's easier to code that sort've thing with MBII's weird clip and reload/recharge system than it is to get a single shot, then reload effect like the Projectile Rifle. Haven't felt a huge need to do that; you can certainly reload every shot if you'd like: it has its upsides and downsides over exhausting your clip before reloading.
a gun that shoots some kind of shockwave-like projectile which has the effects of push 3 and causes some damage would be cool as an FA only weapon for Geonosians (or in other situations). It could do like 25 damage and push 3, but, unlike push 3, you'd be pushed and knocked over no matter what... except you have to be hit by the actual projectile, not a wide arc like push 3. I'd say give it splash damage (since it seems to have some in themovies), but then it would be considered overpowered.
Go use the SBD Laser Cannon. :P
That's the problem with a lot of weapon designs; they're all a lot like Blobs.
WorldsLargestIpod
16-12-2007, 16:21
For a sonic weapon i'd recommend a more kotor like version, that rather that knocking down, causes speed and moderate defense deficiencies while having a a bolt speed faster than a blaster, but less damage is induced, maybe a pistol level 1 strength would be good, or less.
For a sonic weapon i'd recommend a more kotor like version, that rather that knocking down, causes speed and moderate defense deficiencies while having a a bolt speed faster than a blaster, but less damage is induced, maybe a pistol level 1 strength would be good, or less.
you do realize it's not terribly hard to get a 1 or 2 hit kill with a pistol 1 right? If you lower speed and defense, finishing someone off would be simple. Besides, this isn't KOTOR; it's not an RPG. In the movies, the sonic blaster the geonosians had sent things flying, so that would have to be included in such a gun. I guess if the SBD laser could have its effects modified, that would work as a sonic blaster as well, but it needs to knock things over.
WorldsLargestIpod
16-12-2007, 22:00
you do realize it's not terribly hard to get a 1 or 2 hit kill with a pistol 1 right? If you lower speed and defense, finishing someone off would be simple. Besides, this isn't KOTOR; it's not an RPG. In the movies, the sonic blaster the geonosians had sent things flying, so that would have to be included in such a gun. I guess if the SBD laser could have its effects modified, that would work as a sonic blaster as well, but it needs to knock things over.
It really isn't hard to kill anything with a headshot.
of course not, but only the pistol can easily get headshots on the run.
WorldsLargestIpod
17-12-2007, 12:42
of course not, but only the pistol can easily get headshots on the run.
intentional headshots, or 'full-skill' oriented.
Sometimes i get lucky headshots with rifles and the lot while running.
intentional headshots, or 'full-skill' oriented.
Sometimes i get lucky headshots with rifles and the lot while running.
Yes, but there's a very distinct difference between sometimes and always.
Could I ask something not too hard to do for this "shotgun"esque weapon?
Is there any way the spread on it couldn't be ludicrously large? Even civilian buckshot loaded shotguns are effective out to around 50 yards (max effective). Most games I've seen go "Oh, shotgun? Let's make that useless beyond 5 feet", and it really hurts when I see it knowing that a real shotgun is nothing like that at all.
Just a realism consideration. I know it's star wars, but keep in mind real shotguns (which, obviously, a laser shotgun is modelled after) aren't useless if you are more than five feet away.
Azuvector
18-12-2007, 02:06
Just a realism consideration. I know it's star wars, but keep in mind real shotguns (which, obviously, a laser shotgun is modelled after) aren't useless if you are more than five feet away.
Real rifles also don't have projectiles that're slow enough to dodge by simply walking to the left or right. :P
There are several deliberate features of the shotgun that're designed to make it near-useless at long range. (The goal is not to make something that's better than a blaster save for reload time(And in terms of anti-personnel use without body armour as a consideration, a full-auto shotgun is, generally, IRL.), it's to make something that plays different.) Not only the spread, but there's an inherent damage reduction on long-range hits with the shotgun that make lucky hits with its projectiles less effective at long range.
WorldsLargestIpod
18-12-2007, 03:15
How will you managed to make The shotgun more effective at close range than the easy-11
Azuvector
18-12-2007, 10:13
How will you managed to make The shotgun more effective at close range than the easy-11
Wait and see or something. :P
I like b16 blob back for FA :)
Finally, a freaking shotgun. Shotgun = fav weapon in most games.
Delta 57 Dash
19-12-2007, 05:27
I want a shotty in open :C
long recharge between shots means jedi can just jump-slash at close range.
Master Cloud
20-12-2007, 00:25
I can see it now. Hundreds Of Servers Instantly changing to the FA Map of the shotgun just to use it well....By By DOTF
RebelScum
30-12-2007, 15:03
Just a visual question, the gun model used in that picture was a Golan Arms shotgun.
In the actual mod, will there be a replacement model for the Golan Arms?
AceVentura
30-12-2007, 15:16
it's an FA weapon, meaning it's up to the mapper to choose the model.
That's the Golan Arms from JKA :p
RebelScum
30-12-2007, 15:20
That's the Golan Arms from JKA :p
Really?! I had no idea. :rolleyes:
(sarcasm)
WorldsLargestIpod
30-12-2007, 17:41
I was wondering... i noticed that the shotgun when fired puts the gun user in an 'aiming' position, Isn't the shotgun kind of large for that? I would think it would get held like a clone rifle.
Mr_Oujamaflip
30-12-2007, 18:44
I was wondering... i noticed that the shotgun when fired puts the gun user in an 'aiming' position, Isn't the shotgun kind of large for that? I would think it would get held like a clone rifle.
If stationary it should get brought up the eye like an E-11. As it would be in real life.
Azuvector
30-12-2007, 20:38
Just a visual question, the gun model used in that picture was a Golan Arms shotgun.
In the actual mod, will there be a replacement model for the Golan Arms?
As it's an FA-only weapon at this point, as Ace says, the model used depends entirely upon the FA-maker and the model he or she decides to use/has available to them. There's three or four different models in use, I think, in various maps, for it, at present. The BaseJKA Golan Arms being one of them, largely for convenience. Plasma's recently found a model that looks more like a CR-1 Blaster, so that might end up getting used more extensively instead if we get permission to use it.
I was wondering... i noticed that the shotgun when fired puts the gun user in an 'aiming' position, Isn't the shotgun kind of large for that? I would think it would get held like a clone rifle.
It presently uses the E-11 animations, which means if you walk it'll be brought up to eye level even though there's no accuracy bonus for it to be gained by walking. There's apparently an existing shotgun-style animation in BaseJKA, but none of the animators have gotten around to giving the frame numbers/animation name to us coder sorts, so it hasn't been attempted to be put in yet. :P
WorldsLargestIpod
31-12-2007, 00:50
So you can run around with a shotgun and suffer the same accuracy failures that you would while standing still?
look out jedi! here i come!
So you can run around with a shotgun and suffer the same accuracy failures that you would while standing still?
look out jedi! here i come!
Oh noes, The community will have yet another easy-11, shotgun style.
Mr_Oujamaflip
31-12-2007, 01:44
Oh noes, The community will have yet another easy-11, shotgun style.
Oh I would never let that happen.
it has to be in the movie or it cant be put into this game imo
Tallfire
31-12-2007, 07:08
it has to be in the movie or it cant be put into this game imo
Not just in the movie you foolish naive. Play Republic Commando.
Delta 57 Dash
31-12-2007, 14:01
Not just in the movie you foolish naive. Play Republic Commando.
Ah yes the good ole Trandoshan Shotgun... fun fun fun :p
WorldsLargestIpod
31-12-2007, 15:35
it has to be in the movie or it cant be put into this game imo
That's no fun.
Mr_Oujamaflip
31-12-2007, 16:51
it has to be in the movie or it cant be put into this game imo
I disagree here Stormi, that would be far too restrictive. The movies are all well and good, but there is so much extra stuff that isn't rediculous that can also be put in.
its movie battles not make up random guns battles ppl like the movie feel, they like to roleplay and stuff, you lose movie feel if you put in silly guns that dont excist in star wars
Dirk Lightstar
31-12-2007, 19:49
Star Wars goes beyond what is just in the movies. Shotgun-type weapons were in a number of Star Wars games.
Wookieepedia: Shotguns (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shotgun)
Tallfire
01-01-2008, 05:55
its movie battles not make up random guns battles ppl like the movie feel, they like to roleplay and stuff, you lose movie feel if you put in silly guns that dont excist in star wars
Wait, you were being serious?! AH HA HA HA HA! I love this guy pretending to be a girl. AH HA HA HA!
Joking, all the guns (cept in some fas) are canonical [exist in the subject]. Role playing is all good fun but would you want an exact copy of the movies or would you want to have more. Oh yeah, we also wouldn't have destruction. People would just make a guy with no hp and reskin Lightning to be a big red thing.
Numba 1 Stunna
01-01-2008, 09:58
it has to be in the movie or it cant be put into this game imoGoodbye E-11 3, goodbye ARC Trooper, goodbye force drain, goodbye frag grenades, goodbye gunner balance, goodbye disruptor, goodbye armor(everyone died in 1 hit in the movies).
Think about what you say before you post it. That's goodbye to a lot of the things people like in the game.
Dont forget toilets, there where no toilets in the movies either.
Or zombies.
AND HOW THE HELL DO YOU EXPECT US TO LIVE WITH OUT KYLE KATARN?
Tallfire
01-01-2008, 23:43
Goodbye E-11 3, goodbye ARC Trooper, goodbye force drain, goodbye frag grenades, goodbye gunner balance, goodbye disruptor, goodbye armor(everyone died in 1 hit in the movies).
Think about what you say before you post it. That's goodbye to a lot of the things people like in the game.
Actually Luke used a frag grenade to destroy the AT-ST in Ep. 5.
Delta 57 Dash
02-01-2008, 00:02
Actually Luke used a frag grenade to destroy the AT-ST in Ep. 5.
ur memory fails.
it was an AT-AT, first of all
2nd, frag's dont' make big enough explosions. 99% sure it was a Thermal.
WorldsLargestIpod
02-01-2008, 02:18
ur memory fails.
it was an AT-AT, first of all
2nd, frag's dont' make big enough explosions. 99% sure it was a Thermal.
"The rebels dove into the trenches, seeking cover. Luke was then shot down by walker fire, and barely managed to get out of his wrecked craft before it was crushed by a walker. In an act that seemed to give Palpatine's concern about Luke's burgeoning power of a potential Jedi creditability, the young pilot decided to attempt to bring down an AT-AT on his own. Using only a grappling hook and some thermal detonators, Luke managed to do precisely that, before heading off to rejoin the rebels."
But it is my belief that he could have used a frag to take down an AT-ST if he needed to; Considering that Darth Vaders Executer Class Star Destroyer was destroyed by a single star fighter, relative to somone throwing a blaster at an AT-ST
AJOMaverick
02-01-2008, 02:43
can you be walking and discharge shields or do you need to be stationary
Azuvector
02-01-2008, 03:42
can you be walking and discharge shields or do you need to be stationary
Your shields need to be active before the discharge will work. So, you need to be stationary.
Tallfire
02-01-2008, 04:59
"The rebels dove into the trenches, seeking cover. Luke was then shot down by walker fire, and barely managed to get out of his wrecked craft before it was crushed by a walker. In an act that seemed to give Palpatine's concern about Luke's burgeoning power of a potential Jedi creditability, the young pilot decided to attempt to bring down an AT-AT on his own. Using only a grappling hook and some thermal detonators, Luke managed to do precisely that, before heading off to rejoin the rebels."
But it is my belief that he could have used a frag to take down an AT-ST if he needed to; Considering that Darth Vaders Executer Class Star Destroyer was destroyed by a single star fighter, relative to somone throwing a blaster at an AT-ST
Right. I thought that if it was a thermal detonator then it would have disintegrated the AT-AT. Besides, frags dont make explosions. Also, the ship's shields were taken down before the ship crashed. Now adays if a fighter jet crashed into a ship, the ship would either be heavily damaged or sinking.
Shadriss
04-01-2008, 00:01
Reguarding the death of the Executor:
A) As noted, the Bridge quadrant of the shields hd been brought down, as spoken in the movie.
B) The impact was on the bridge itself. This would have a couple of notable effects. First, it throws the entire chain of command on the ship into chaos. Second, it severs or destroys several control runs, which would temporarilly disrupt ship command and control while the crew shifted to manual or local control.
C) This is the important point - the Executor was in close proximity to the Death Star. An object that big (the Death Star) would have it's own gravity due to mass. Between the events noted in the first two points and the fact that the Executor was as close to the Death Star as it was, the ship had no chance to recover before said gravity pulled the ship in.
In short, the death of the Executor was a fluke. In many other books and sources, it is noted that most fighter pilots considered it to be such, and had no intentions of trying to tangle with one on thier own if they could at all help it.
It is POSSIBLE, however unlikely, that a frag/thermal grenade can bring down an AT-AT in a similar way. The detonation, in and of itself, is not what brought it down. It is unlikely that a single grenade of any type would produce that result. Unless, somehow, it happened to roll into an area containing portions of the AT-AT drive train and power systems... and given where we saw Luke toss it in, that's a possibility.
In no way would I expect a single grenade to do that under normal circuimstances, nor should anyone else. Even an AT-ST would almost easilly shrug such an attack aside (For a good example of this, read "Allegiance" by Timothy Zahn... it has a good scene depicting this idea.) To expect that such a fluke kill should be a standard thing is ludicrous.
WorldsLargestIpod
04-01-2008, 00:07
Unless of course you blow up the pilot or scare him into knocking into the 'crash the AT-AT' button on the Controls.
Reguarding the death of the Executor:
A) As noted, the Bridge quadrant of the shields hd been brought down, as spoken in the movie.
B) The impact was on the bridge itself. This would have a couple of notable effects. First, it throws the entire chain of command on the ship into chaos. Second, it severs or destroys several control runs, which would temporarilly disrupt ship command and control while the crew shifted to manual or local control.
C) This is the important point - the Executor was in close proximity to the Death Star. An object that big (the Death Star) would have it's own gravity due to mass. Between the events noted in the first two points and the fact that the Executor was as close to the Death Star as it was, the ship had no chance to recover before said gravity pulled the ship in.
In short, the death of the Executor was a fluke. In many other books and sources, it is noted that most fighter pilots considered it to be such, and had no intentions of trying to tangle with one on thier own if they could at all help it.
It is POSSIBLE, however unlikely, that a frag/thermal grenade can bring down an AT-AT in a similar way. The detonation, in and of itself, is not what brought it down. It is unlikely that a single grenade of any type would produce that result. Unless, somehow, it happened to roll into an area containing portions of the AT-AT drive train and power systems... and given where we saw Luke toss it in, that's a possibility.
In no way would I expect a single grenade to do that under normal circuimstances, nor should anyone else. Even an AT-ST would almost easilly shrug such an attack aside (For a good example of this, read "Allegiance" by Timothy Zahn... it has a good scene depicting this idea.) To expect that such a fluke kill should be a standard thing is ludicrous.
Also forgot to mention that there was no one in the secondary command room where someone oculd;ve saved the executor from crashing (Also mentioned in Timothy Zahn's Thrawn series).
C) This is the important point - the Executor was in close proximity to the Death Star. An object that big (the Death Star) would have it's own gravity due to mass. Between the events noted in the first two points and the fact that the Executor was as close to the Death Star as it was, the ship had no chance to recover before said gravity pulled the ship in.
Now this much, at least, is incorrect. What actually happened was the ship used its engines in an uncontrolled "all ahead full" to accidentally ram into the Death Star, which was caused by loss of control via destruction of the bridge, and the inability of the backup bridge to react in time. It is also speculated that the death of the Emperor and the severing of his battle meditation resulted in this chain of events.
If it was simply sucked into the Death Star II's gravity well all of diddly pip would have happened, given the strength of the Executor's hull and shielding. The DSII is smaller than the Moon, and the Moon's gravity wouldn't be sufficient to destroy a ship the toughness of the Executor after a "fall" of only roughly sixteen kilometers. The engines, however, have an acceleration rating of 3,000 g's or so, more than sufficient to jar the ship enough to cause its hypermatter reactor to de-sync, fracture, and blow the entire vessel to kingdom come.
However, back to the point at hand, I believe Luke used a concussion detonator (the variety used to ez-bake the Endor bunker and shield generator) or some similarly high-yield explosive device.
Shadriss
04-01-2008, 17:34
Unless of course you blow up the pilot or scare him into knocking into the 'crash the AT-AT' button on the Controls.
Unlikely. :) You'd hae to get past all those stormtroopers in the hold to get to the command deck in the 'head'. If you have enough power on your own to get past that many armed and elite foes, you wouldn't need to scare the crap out of the pilot.
You could just give that AT AT 'the look', and it would destroy itself in fear.
At Reaper - First off, a fall of sixteen kilometers would destroy just about anything. The simple forces of inertia would take care of that in this case. GIven that I was incorrect about the gravity situation, however, that's a moot point. I hadn;'t remembered that set of lines from the Thrawn trilogy, but it does serve to back up my second point about chaos in the chain of command and inability to get the ship back under control.
I find it VERY odd, however, (and I say this from my perspective of being a military man myself) that a secondary bridge would be completely unmanned during combat. While the chances of the back-ups being needed are minimal (for all the reasons we've discussed) the military mind would demand it be manned anyway... just in case. I think Zahn screwed the pooch with that explination, but as it's on the record now, I guess that the Imperials are just plain stupid in thaty regard. :)
At any rate, regardless of the impetus for the ship to actually hit the DSII, the point remains that it was a fluke. Just like taking out an ATAT or an ATST with a grenade of any type would be.
I always thought the bridge was manned, but the people were just kind of laying around doing nothing because they thought the battle was in the bag. When the ship began to accelerate out of control, they had literally two seconds to slam the "emergency reverse" button, which by the time they got the message "LOL BRIDGE BLEWED UP" via intercomm, it probably would have been too late.
And no, given the structural integrity of an Executor class SSD, I would rather doubt a fall of sixteen kilometers into a gravity field three times smaller than the moon (ergo a mere one eighteenth that of Earth's gravity) would result in a hull capable of sustaining gigaton level kinetic energy impacts deforming practically at all (and, in fact, it would also not result in the SSD Executor crashing into the Death Star at that speed. If it was falling at only 1 meter per second of acceleration or slower it would have taken ages upon ages to slam into the Death Star's surface, given its distance, much longer than the film depicted).
Additionally, an AT-ST is very lightly armored and is not designed to take direct fire. It is very likely you could indeed render the crew incapacitated or mission kill the vehicle via incapacitating the drive or weapon systems with a well placed fragmentation grenade. However, the point stands about the fact that the "super small insignificant speck killing the gigantic monstrous death machine via a crucial overlooked weak point" is just a theme of Star Wars, and in actuality is unlikely to happen.
At any rate, technicalities aside, yes. Killing enormous, armored things with crazy big weaponry using only an anti-personnel device (or other similarly light weapon) is generally just a fluke, and very unlikely to happen, unless you happen to be classified as a "hero" in a space fantasy epic, in which case it should be expected to, in fact, be the norm.
WorldsLargestIpod
05-01-2008, 00:28
" Additionally, an AT-ST is very lightly armored and is not designed to take direct fire. It is very likely you could indeed render the crew incapacitated or mission kill the vehicle via incapacitating the drive or weapon systems with a well placed fragmentation grenade. However, the point stands about the fact that the "super small insignificant speck killing the gigantic monstrous death machine via a crucial overlooked weak point" is just a theme of Star Wars, and in actuality is unlikely to happen. "
You mean AT-AT, and it's not really lightly armored...
In the words of darth vader on the deathstar;
"Couldn't we just board it up?"
You mean AT-AT, and it's not really lightly armored...
Erm, no, I don't. I mean AT-ST, as they did come into the conversation previously, if you had been paying attention. They are, additionally, in fact, lightly armored scout vehicles designed for, guess what, scouting! Oh, gee, how about that.
Now if we can move along and back onto the topic of this new(ish) shotgun...
WorldsLargestIpod
05-01-2008, 16:49
Erm, no, I don't. I mean AT-ST, as they did come into the conversation previously, if you had been paying attention. They are, additionally, in fact, lightly armored scout vehicles designed for, guess what, scouting! Oh, gee, how about that.
Now if we can move along and back onto the topic of this new(ish) shotgun...
Srry didn't read the fine print at the end. :P
UnsungHero
16-01-2008, 04:01
will the shield discharge knock a grenade or rocket back if timed correctly?
Azuvector
16-01-2008, 04:17
will the shield discharge knock a grenade or rocket back if timed correctly?
No, only damage-taking, knockbackable entities, at present. It's coded based off what's essentially a 0-damage explosion with the knockback of a small rocket explosion.
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