View Full Version : stormies are clones
i'm accepting cerbs judgement and making this off topic
Storm Troopers aren't clones... and the emperor never really used that cloning facility to mass produce storm troopers.
It's impossible to know that for a fact, at least until epIII comes out
It's possible that some are existing clones, but,
remember, the clones age quickly. Obi Wan was an old man in Episode IV, so, with the accelerated aging, there's a small chance any clones were left.
Whats to say they never made a new batch? in the starwars databank cloning is widespread across the galaxy
Just because they wear similar, faceless, armor does not mean that they are the same people inside. Normal people were storm troopers. Rebels would not be fighting clones.
Fact clone troopers were the only military source the old republic had at the time of the 3 prequels (jedi aside).....
Fact the republic soon became, the empire......
Fact those troopers followed orders, be it from the republic or empire (of which palpatine was leader of both)
Fact only at a later date did the rebellion rebel against the current government..call it old republic or empire so yes they could have rebelled against clone troopers.
If you go by the later EU books then yes normal ppl were stormtroopers aswell i.e. kyp and kyle's brothers....But there could be many reasons for this....These guys were recruited after the empire collapsed and stormtrooper numbers dwindled....
In the thrawn books, he says the empire can make a good clone in about 2 years, as opposed to 10 years the kamino had (but again unstable) {incidentally there spariti tanks accelerate growth-but they dont mean that a trooper has a shorter lifespan}so there fore its likely in later years after a new hope as stocks dwindled and (and became unstable) the empire started recruiting more normal peeps to aid the rank and file buti would also suggest to lead the stormies in officor roles.
WE dont know for sure but could speculate pretty well....
I found a good lucas quote from total film magazine but as i'm not a subscriber i cant reference it, but other mags and forums do reference the same quote
"I had thought of using Boba Fett earlier on, which is how I came to use him in the first place as a bounty hunter, His role really has more to do with the clones than it does with anything else. Boba Fett originally came out of the fact that he was associated with the Stormtroopers. There was a relationship between them that had to do with the fact that they were all clones. Boba Fett was the son of original clone. And that story was all I had to go with when Boba Fett was introduced in Empire. (ESB) That was his back-story. That was all I had on him. But I?ve continued that idea and expanded on it in Episode II."
So no one can be sure, my 2 cent is that clones evolved to stormtroopers with rigouras/brutal training from the empire....as the bacame more unstable, and their stocks dwindled the empire started recruiting/kidnapping them from conqoured worlds, as well as cloning them.
TigerZeta
08-10-2004, 12:04
Well, if they have allowed increased aging, why couldn't they stop aging in the genes, or what ever....
I'd say in New Hope some of the stormtroopers ARE clones, but not all of them are clones, possibly because of aging then, or they have just simply got killed. (A lot, then).
Another possibility that the clones still form the spine of The Imperial army, and there are quite a lot of recruits, though.... Either way, there has to be a considerable number of recruits in my opinion. Well, at least officers are, if not anything else...
But that would support the "most of them are clones" -theory... They always obey rules... And remember Obi-Wan talking about weak-minded? Clones are very open/sensitive to suggestions...
"I have seen the light!" x)
Dacks Zero
08-10-2004, 12:44
Ok the following is a known fact aswell as an Ep3 Ending Spoiler:
Palpatine/Darth Sidious reveals his true identity at the very end of the movie and activates some sort of program in their genes to follow his orders. Order #1: Kill your Jedi Leaders.
So the initial force of the Empire at that time are the Clones-turned-Stormtroopers. It's due to war, lack of force and eventual detoriation of the original clones that they needed more combatants. This is were the recruitment period came in. They only recruited Humans for their forces, something about finding the Humanrace superior or something.
In the beginning of the Empire, the clones were still fresh and powerfull, but later on they began to become less sufficient. This is due to having lost their base for cloning. Copying from a copy is always worse than copying from an original. Especially with the Empire having to maintain their ''oppression'' on nearly every section of the Galaxy. This takes a lot of manpower, along with the Jedi Purge and the GCW, they needed more men.
Some survived all the wars though, I'm sure some are even in the Rebellion, but those are mostly the more self-reliant type of Clones (ARCs, Special Troops or the new type of Clones we see in Ep3).
interesting read dacks,
Seems crazy to think that with all the messing with genes, and the kamino's making the perfect trooper that would always follow orders that some of them would rebel. Although i cant think of any other way the rebels would have amassed an army/rebellion...
Maybe the clones themselves didn't rebel but the followed their leaders who did (saying they were genetically coded to kill jedi's maybe there were other non jedi generals??? but as they didnt have a previous army why would there be a need for republic generals other than the jedi!..).. maybe some clones did join the rebellion but i'm thinking more worlds rebelled against the empire and gave their military police or their own troops to the cause.
But thanks dacks.......when u get a email notification there is no colour (all plain text) and so i got the spoiler.....arrraaaggghhhh i've been trying to avoid spoilers<> cos they ruined atoc for me! :eek: sound like a great twist tho :D
=Profcorron=
08-10-2004, 13:07
Stormies started out as clones, but as more died they ended up recruting.
But for the time being the only recruted Humans as the Stormies. (in EU) an alian Grand Admaral Thrawn was sent into the outer regions to keep them under control. HE recruted some alians (mainly his own species) as did some other admals, Dala...
But mainly the Forces of the Imps were recruted humans with a scatering of clones and a tiny scatering of alians.
It's impossible to know that for a fact, at least until epIII comes out
you obviously haven't read the Grand Admiral Thrawn series. We don't need to wait till Episode III because Grand Admiral Thrawn says it in there. If I can remember which book (3 in the GT series) has it and where, I'll post the direct quote. You basically rigged this discussion because I said some storm troopers in ANH were clones, but I also said most weren't. The Imperial Academy as well as other imperial learning facilities recruited and trained many normal humans as storm troopers, officers, pilots, etc... and, someone already said it, you're not always right. It's not a fact that the Old Republic became the Empire. The Old Republic was destroyed and most of its remaining members WERE the Old Republic, and then the Empire filled in the gap. Don't post Facts that aren't facts and don't only post quotes of mine that you can argue against when I clearly say some of the things you argue. Instead, why don't you post a link to the thread that this discussion takes place in so people get the full discussion and not this sugar-coated crap you're feeding everyone.
And your thread topic is completly false. It says, "stormies are clones" when it should, in fact, say, "clones are stormies". You're topic name implies that all storm troopers are clones when that's no where near correct where it should mean most, if not all, clones are storm troopers.
EDIT: here's the original thread, http://www.moviebattles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1199&page=8&pp=10 , but don't discuss this there because it's already struggling to stay on topic. That's just where you can read the raw version.
Aezeroth
10-10-2004, 02:46
It only makes sense that clonetroopers will become stormies. But Han Solo almost became a stormie in the Han Solo trilogy. Perhaps it's a mix of clones and humans...
Dacks Zero
10-10-2004, 16:55
Seems crazy to think that with all the messing with genes, and the kamino's making the perfect trooper that would always follow orders that some of them would rebel. Although i cant think of any other way the rebels would have amassed an army/rebellion...
Sorry, I should've elaborated more on the surviving part. The clones became more and more selfreliant. Those were the specials forces, dubbed various names for various situations most known ones are the Advanced Recon Clone Troopers.
These were mostly the ones that survived the war(s) 'cause they were used to preparational or intelligence missions, not the frontlines of war. Most died in those battles, which explains why most ARC-type clones survived. It's the part that made them self-reliant, less of the quality as the original clones and the 'Ep3 Plot Twist' - that they were able to escape their fate. The war was costy and quantityhad a higher priority than quality.
Also, what you'll have to get rid off is the thinking of all clones are identical - cuz they certainly weren't. The Advanced Clones only had a view similarities, but as quality degraded, they started to look different.
It's not a fact that the Old Republic became the Empire.
Well, to be technically correct, you are wrong. Senator Palpatine took full control over the Old Republice during the Clone Wars Crisis (they had a special, fancy name for it). His title became Supreme Chancelor, along with his unlimited and unquestionable power - he was as close to Surpreme Ruler as you could get without turning it into an Empire.
As Ep3 will show,
he takes full control and turns the Old Republic into the Empire (had some deceptive reasonings for this to pursuave the people). Thus the Old Republic did become the Empire.
It was that later, when they started to notice him staying on the throne that they wanted their freedom back - and that's how the Rebellion started.
ok from what i picked up i think that:
palpatine had that emergency thing in the time of war to give him all control or something (in II) but he used his influences to prolong the war or something like that so he stayed in power for like 10 years..then in IV near the beginning somewhere you hear darth vader (i think) say that the emp. has dispelled the senate or whatever so thats how he gets single complete power..also i think i read lucas say that stormies were clones but not of jango fett, like an imperial officier or someone with the right contacts or power would get cloned instead of the best person skillwise, which is a good reason why the aim of stormies are less then average ;)
Chroniktoke
10-10-2004, 18:28
i'm accepting cerbs judgement and making this off topic
It's impossible to know that for a fact, at least until epIII comes out
Whats to say they never made a new batch? in the starwars databank cloning is widespread across the galaxy
So no one can be sure, my 2 cent is that clones evolved to stormtroopers with rigouras/brutal training from the empire....as the bacame more unstable, and their stocks dwindled the empire started recruiting/kidnapping them from conqoured worlds, as well as cloning them.
unless you have readen the books released by lucas (which most things are way diff. in the films)a long time ago.
Aezeroth
11-10-2004, 00:38
You know dacks, your attempts at disguising spoilers aren't really effective...
darth vader (i think) say that the emp. has dispelled the senate
Yea, that's not becoming the Old Republic, that's getting rid of it. Just because the Emperor WAS part of the Old Republic doesn't mean this new government was the Old Republic.
k pilot define the old republic.....
then define the empire......
Tell me why they are different and what made them different :D
Tis all fun and games dude, i'm cool ;)
Originally Posted by zag
somewhere you hear darth vader (i think) say that the emp. has dispelled the senate
Tarkin says :
The Imperial Senate will be no longer of any concern to us
I have just received word , that the Emperor has dissolved the council perminently
the last remnants of the old republic have swapped away
:p
thank you tom
there in your face im right ;)
dont worry , its just bcs im a geek :p
got all films on HD for quick reference
and to think...all this just so Palpatine can have his REVENGE on the Jedi.
tsk tsk tsk...what a shame
Nothing to do with controlling the galaxy and doing whatever he likes whenever he likes. Not at all. Surely he doesn't have a holyday palace filled with twi'lek slaves and the like. Riiiiight :P
its all Jar-Jar's fault :p
Jedistrike
21-10-2004, 13:09
enebody think that maby its anikins fault??? he was probobly givin a very large portion of the clones 2 command. remmember they follow every order .. he turns,...so do they if he did turn he would have brought every single troop at his command with him . the only ? is how large the number of clones with him was .. or .. he could have got em strait from the source .. having been turned .. he brings a small fleet 2 camino , standerd clone ships , from tthe force he commanded .. and pics up the next batch and brings em 2 his master...or whomever happened 2 b in command at the time .. maby sidiose
Dingo Dave
21-10-2004, 16:06
I know this is obvious but everyone does realise Darth Sidious, Senator Palpatine and Emperor Palpatine are all the same person.
El Vi-Riachi
21-10-2004, 16:30
figured that one out a good while ago
Dingo Dave
21-10-2004, 20:50
enebody think that maby its anikins fault??? he was probobly givin a very large portion of the clones 2 command. remmember they follow every order .. he turns,...so do they if he did turn he would have brought every single troop at his command with him . the only ? is how large the number of clones with him was .. or .. he could have got em strait from the source .. having been turned .. he brings a small fleet 2 camino , standerd clone ships , from tthe force he commanded .. and pics up the next batch and brings em 2 his master...or whomever happened 2 b in command at the time .. maby sidioseit was this post that sounded a bit cofused to me. Pre emptive apoligies if I am wrong
I know this is obvious but everyone does realise Darth Sidious, Senator Palpatine and Emperor Palpatine are all the same person.
it tells you on the back of the episode I video/DVD box
Dingo Dave
22-10-2004, 10:41
I never got that - the DVD was £20.00 even a month ago so generaly not worth it.
Master-Kitrant
22-10-2004, 18:40
The Clones Only Obay the republic, They only listen to the jedi because they are apart of the republic.....When Palpatine Names the republic the galaxtic empire, and the jedi are the sworn enemy...The clones naturaly turn on the jedi.....Thats why they go so willingly with anikin to..."dispose" The jedi order and its mighty temple
Master-Kitrant
22-10-2004, 18:55
The Old Republic was destroyed and most of its remaining members WERE the Old Republic, and then the Empire filled in the gap.
.....Destroyed. Palpatine was ruler of bother the republic and empire. so really it wasnt "destroyed" but changed. think about it.
|_maPex_|
22-10-2004, 20:27
Yeah I can see Kitrant's point. Also, the Republic logo is the same as the Imperial logo - maybe they just renamed the Republic and changed the type of soldiers it had.
yes yes yes
so we all agree stormies are originally clones......dissidents from the kamino clones
I don't see any "dissidence" in them...
*Some Stormies are probably clones!!!!!!!!!
*Mainline Stormie Infantry All Sound The Same!!!!!!!!!
*Imperial Higher Ranks Are Normal Humans!!!!!!!! Each One is Individual!!!!!!!!!!
*In Star Wars Rogue Squadron III, The Imperials take On Recrutes!!!!!!!!!!!!
:p
yea i find it likely some stormies are clones... some the ones that survived the clone wars ie
but i think most are recruits who follow orders cuz if they dont theyll get fried and theyre well aware of that vader/palpatine dont just assassinate insobordinate officers they kill em infront of everyone and say if you disobey me this is what happens
and the reason i think most are recruits is because they have discussions and lives outside being a trooper they talk about thier off shifts and what not and have diffrent personalities this may just be a philosophical view of mine but i think if there were clones they would have no or exactly the same personality at the original copy
also just as a side note to the conversations in jk2 some stormies are talkin about an ancient sith weapon which is like a lightsaber but is an axe instead of a sword thatd be a kick ass weapon to see ;)
.....Destroyed. Palpatine was ruler of bother the republic and empire. so really it wasnt "destroyed" but changed. think about it.
Yea, but from that quote Zags and Tom peiced together, you'll see that all Palpatine did was wipe out what was left and start his own. The symbol wouldn't change cause it was still him in charge. Generally, when something goes from a democracy to a dictatorship and there is military conflict, it's not called changing as much as it is a new government.
DeathStarJanitor22
27-10-2004, 05:19
luke was going to become a storm trooper. or wait is he a clone? because if he was i wasnt aware. Oh and all the clones had an excelerated life span so they all died like ten years after the clone wars.
|_maPex_|
27-10-2004, 07:18
DeathStarJanitor22 you're correct but you don't have to call people morons. I have no doubt some clones were alive after the Clone Wars and became stormies immediately to help jumpstart the Imperial army, which recruited normal human beings as well. Even Luke said to his aunt and uncle something around the lines of "I don't want to stay another season for the moisture farms! I want to go to the Academy". And this is at a time period, episodes 4-6, when Jedi were unheard of so the Academy can only mean one thing - the Imperial Academy where they accept and train to be Imperial armymen aka Stormtroopers. Even Kyle Katarn I think was an Imperial soldier before he found out the Imperials killed his family or something (not sure, and I'm too lazy to check starwars.com databank right now).
I thought imperial academy is a PILOT academy! :eek:
I guess there's one for TIE pilots, another for stormtroopers, another for ATAT/ATST pilots, another for capital ship pilots... or something like that.
I thought imperial academy is a PILOT academy! :eek:
Yes, luke was planning to be an imperial pilot.
That'd have merit! Surviving in a crappy TIE Fighter, not an hyperdrive and astromech droid equiped, shielded X-Wing...
Yes, luke was planning to be an imperial pilot.
Indeed that would probably be his goal and is fate, but the Academy is just the Imperial Academy. If luke showed more skill in guns, he would be a storm trooper, or something to that affect, but, because of his flight skills, he most likely would have become a tie pilot. IF there are any clones in Episode IV-VI, they'd either be really old, or unaltered, like Boba Fett. Storm Troopers don't really show any elite qualities, either, games, movies, or EU (although they're not as crappy in the EU), so I don't see how they could be clones, really. If the emperor was going to go through the trouble of making more clones, he would probably, also, continue to put them through the already formatted elite training, correct? It just doesn't make sense and I think that none of the storm troopers are clones. I've never read of a storm trooper clone in the books, and the books get a few storm troopers personally, outside uniform and other such things. Even if there ARE clones in the Imperial Army, Episodes IV-VI, I don't see why we'd allow clones to fight rebels or whatever crazy mixture of teams someone requested at the base of this thread thinking, for some reason, that clones are storm troopers.
What i wonder is... would clonin a jedi create force sensitive clones (or rather, were Jangos clones force sensitive too?)? If yes wouldn't it be better to clone somebody more powerful in the force? Imagine a horde of younger count Dookus or whatever... all of them with lightsabers slashing the droids or jumping on top of the vehicles and cutting them...
dee|mies
28-10-2004, 14:02
well, in an EU comic palpatine said that if luke killed him, he'd just pick another body to live in. so i guess the body or genes do not matter, but the spirit of the force user.
this is more getting into the question "can a clone have a soul" if you believe in souls or not and if u do u likely think they cant because they arent really people so much as animated cells its like comparing a plant to an animal in terms of how its living a plant is alive but not in the same sense an animal is. clones probably cant reason and are more or less like dogs you just raise and train them and theyre loyal and they have the same genetic pattern as the original with certain modifications but they dont "think" like we do and from what ive learned of the force its basically a spirit that chooses diffrent hosts which are born not made a droid cant be force sensative and im sure the force is more or less discerning its like thier God basically it knows if your a clone or real so it wouldnt choose to inhabit a clone but hey these are just my opinions and maybe im looking to much into it
If you look at the force in a more mystic way i agree they wouldn't be (but i don't agree they wouldn't have a soul if such a thing exist, we're all just cells from our parents combined and developed...), but if we take the midchlorians into account, it would seem it goes in the blood, thus the clones would be force sensitive (it would also seem logical since a jedi's sons will inherit his force sensistivity).
this is more getting into the question "can a clone have a soul" if you believe in souls or not and if u do u likely think they cant because they arent really people so much as animated cells its like comparing a plant to an animal in terms of how its living a plant is alive but not in the same sense an animal is. clones probably cant reason and are more or less like dogs you just raise and train them and theyre loyal and they have the same genetic pattern as the original with certain modifications but they dont "think" like we do and from what ive learned of the force its basically a spirit that chooses diffrent hosts which are born not made a droid cant be force sensative and im sure the force is more or less discerning its like thier God basically it knows if your a clone or real so it wouldnt choose to inhabit a clone but hey these are just my opinions and maybe im looking to much into it
people are still people no matter how similar their genetic structure is
and many people believe your not just born with a soul, you earn it
a persons personality comes from the world around them not their DNA, that is what makes people unique
According to EU, force sensativity is not in the genes. One of the candidates at Luke's academy is from a planet that, a very very long time ago (before Kamino?), decided to be nothing but clones. One of Lukes candidates felt like an outcast at his homeworld because he was the only one in his set of clones to be force sensative. If clones could be force sensative all the time, there would be far more Jedi.
conundrum
02-11-2004, 05:25
I suggest you all read the excellent EU book The Cestus Deception (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0345458974/qid=1099369443/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/102-0683237-6882521?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) before you start talking about the clone troopers. I think Barnes came up with an excellent idea on what they're like.
On the topic of individuality, there's A-98/Nate/Jangotat. Also, the question of their commanding officers is adressed. As well as force sensitivity.
Powered by vBulletin™ Version 4.0.0 Copyright © 2012 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.