View Full Version : Video card which should i take ?
im about to buy a new video card
tho i cant decide
what do u guys think ?
whats better a nVidea FX 5900 XT , or a ATI Radeon 9800 Pro
both with 128 Mb
[KP] Tokakeke
25-09-2004, 04:16
the nvidia one....radeons are the sux
If it must be between those two, go for the radeon tom.
However, if you're just asking which card in general, right now nothing beats a 6800 gt when it comes to bang for your buck.
|_maPex_|
25-09-2004, 06:49
I don't know what ACiDuS is telling you. Go nVIDIA until ATI decides to not be so lazy and release good drivers. Hardware can't function well without software. nVIDIA drivers you can trust, but ATI omg they don't even supply their own drivers for Laptop Radeons (mobility) - you have to get them from your laptop manufacturer. To top it off, ATI linux drivers suck and they are so slow on making AMD64 version drivers. nVIDIA has all of the above plus its quality stuff. I am nVIDIA for ever until something better comes along.
heh yes Acidus , but its a bit over my budget
i got only 200-250 euro spare (not 400) :p
Got my GF 5700 256 MB for quite cheap, 190?-The old Graphics card. Some shops might give you quite good for your old GPU (the smaller shop, the more it gives, but u must buy it on site), they gave me 60? for my budget class GF.
Don't fall for fanboy comments tom. The last generation of radeons destroyed nvidia cards and its only with the 6800 range that they've finally fought back to the top of the hill.
Out of those 2 cards, the radeon is far superior.
Listen to ACiD, he is a big computer nerd.
lol
im going for the ATI
but no shop in my town got the 9800 pro ,
only the 9800 se (but that 1 sux compared to the pro version)
:mad:
hey tom for the best value go to Komplett, but for the best valus get a 9800 bundle http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=301152&cks=SER
they have a .nl site but i dont understand language so it may be the same deal or not
http://www.komplett.nl/k/k.asp
If i recall some se could be converted to pro, since they were really a pro, tweaking it to not run to it's fullest.
dee|mies
27-09-2004, 17:26
i just ordered x800XT
6800 is way better than the x800 models.
You see the 6800 is actually a new technology, whereas the x800 is a rehash of old ati's but with faster memory and clock.. so whilst the two cards are about level at the moment, the 6800 technology has significant potential for growth through its drivers, but the x800 was stagnant before it even came out.
|_maPex_|
27-09-2004, 18:01
ACiDuS you didn't even argue about ATI drivers in your posts. You must admit they suck and they tend to fubar a lot. You sometimes get older drivers better than new ones. They don't even give you laptop drivers on the site so your never updated unless your laptop manufacturer released mobility updates. Mainly, the only problem w/ ATI is its crap drivers and retarded technical support. Jeez try calling those guys once in a while. Back in the days of quake2 they sucked. Today they suck even more. One guy I called didn't even know what a 'driver' was - I was ready to shoot myself.
Anyway, nVIDIA always has drivers available and always makes a new batch weekly. So for the newer cards, keep upgrading. For older cards geforce5 and earlier relax with one stable release with nifty features because newer drivers focus on giving support to newer cards only. However, there are beta versions of these drivers available to which sometimes are actually better than WHQL certified drivers and nVIDIA junkies like me can benefit.
I say, the two cards are pretty much the same but nVIDIA is always active on upgrading its **** whereas ATI is some lazy bums who release an SDK of their drivers to laptop manufacturer's who are also too lazy to convert the SDK into a version for their own laptops. I don't ever expect to get an ATI mobility radeon supporting catalyst driver update in the near future - I'll be getting rid of this laptop and getting a new one before I can upgrade my drivers.
If anything, I probably lean more toward nvidia, but theres no doubt that out of the two cards tom presented the ati was the better option.
|_maPex_|
27-09-2004, 18:11
The card's functionality is shot w/o drivers. Explain to Tom that ATI drivers have an extremely bad reputation.
*ADDITION* Tom, if you plan on using an AMD64/Intel Itanium processor don't expect 64bit drivers for Windows XP 64bit version for a very very very very long time. I just reinstalled normal 32bit WinXP b/c of this BS. I can't even install 64Bit Linux drivers for ATI whereas nVIDIA jumped on that **** the minute it came out and there beta linux 64bit drivers are very very very decent.
anyway i bought this nice ATI 9800 Pro
got over 300 fps in some MB maps :D
wow 300fps
i may not be up to speed on video equipment, but doesnt that mean u have a 300HZ+ CRTmonitor, i dont now how lcd panels work if thats what u have.
anyway seing as its off topic, if ya really wanna upgrade ur spec.......i suggest liquid nitrogen and a 6MHz processor
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...55&page=1&pp=25
More like his pc calculates the 300, then the screen renders what it's able to.
Yes, alesh is correct.
The fps just shows what your pc is making, even if your monitor isnt fast enough to show it all.
TehJumpingJawa
02-10-2004, 00:36
if he turns vsync on, the framerate will be locked to whatever his monitors refresh is set to.
ahhhhh interesting.
who says u dont learn new stuff online....
always wondered bout that vsync!
I always have vsync off, I like large numbers and if your card/monitor is half decent tearing is minimal.
ACiDuS you didn't even argue about ATI drivers in your posts. You must admit they suck and they tend to fubar a lot.That's a logical fallacy. As an ATI user, I won't have to 'admit' anything - system performance is dependant on so many factors, your argument wouldn't hold water if you drowned it in the ocean.
You sometimes get older drivers better than new ones. They don't even give you laptop drivers on the site so your never updated unless your laptop manufacturer released mobility updates. Mainly, the only problem w/ ATI is its crap drivers and retarded technical support. Jeez try calling those guys once in a while. Back in the days of quake2 they sucked. Today they suck even more. One guy I called didn't even know what a 'driver' was - I was ready t shoot myself.Laptop policy isn't limited to ATI - though ATI is a more common card on laptops than NVIDIA, NVIDIA sometimes has the same policy. As for drivers - there are a few cases where technology advances have made new drivers less compatible with older technology, like the Catalyst 4.2 drivers on Knights of the Old Republic. However, the new 4.9 drivers pretty much equal the performance (I speak from my experience as a driver tester and owner of the KOTOR game on both the PC and the Xbox, which is powered by a modified GeForce3). For more information, visit the official technical support forums at Bioware.
Anyway, nVIDIA always has drivers available and always makes a new batch weekly. So for the newer cards, keep upgrading. For older cards geforce5 and earlier relax with one stable release with nifty features because newer drivers focus on giving support to newer cards only. However, there are beta versions of these drivers available to which sometimes are actually better than WHQL certified drivers and nVIDIA junkies like me can benefit.This argument is so full of nonsense I'm going to spend some time and explain exactly why. First of all, you think updating your batch weekly is good? Welcome to the world of software engineering, kid. It's not. The more patches you need to make, the more problems you give to your users and the faultier your software is. Back when an Internet connection was rare, patches weren't an option. A programmer had to make his program or game as best possible because updates were only available on floppy or CD-ROM. I've been a beta tester for a software company for fifteen years and I want to throw arguments like 'more patches is good!' out of the window. A patch means you screwed something up in the first place.
Now, you can also argue that the new drivers are compatible with new video card releases, of course, but last time I checked NVIDIA didn't release a new set every week. Which brings me to the second point:
NVIDIA drivers are coded like crap.
Yes, I know what I'm talking about. They have better OpenGL support than ATI (a problem ATI is adressing with the upcoming 4.10 release, I hope), but ATI is way ahead of them in DirectX systems. Because JK3 (like any Q3 based game) is programmed with OpenGL technology this means that generally Nvidia cards give better performance, I agree with that. But it doesn't mean they're better cards in general. Now, aside from this argument, have you ever seen the source code for the drivers? I have. And it's sloppy code with patchworks and holes. ATI drivers have a decent logical structure and syntax.
Eagerly awaiting your reply,
Ken
The current gen of nvidia are way better than ati.
The last gen of ati (which tom has bought on our advice) is way better than nvidia.
It swings both ways and any clever consumer won't let himself be sucked into fanboy mode and choose one or the other based on company loyalty.
ps, I use beta drivers exclusively with my 6800gt.
I was talking about the drivers though. You don't need to be biased to explain why ATI drivers are better programmed. Just go a google. :)
anyway thx for the advice Acidus
i was about to check the 6800 , but it would require a new transformator aswell
bcs mine is only 350 W
anyway the 9800 is running well
the best FPS i got with MB is in CC when i go in carbonite room (and then to some corner where there is just darkness)
695 FPS :p
The 6800gt isnt all that bad for power consumption. Its the 6800u that takes 2 power ports ;)
Course, I could run about 10 of those on my limited edition gold plated 880w enermax. Thing cost me about 300 quid, but one of the most beautiful parts of my kit. Bought it back when everyone was saying all the new tech would take huge amounts of power but since then power consumptions and thus psu sizes have actually dropped.
But still, it gives me a massive e-****.
I was talking about the drivers though. You don't need to be biased to explain why ATI drivers are better programmed.
I agree that ati drivers in general are better programmed, with far more efficient coding and often more advanced tech (until the current gen). However, nvidia are better implemented, theres a clear difference there. Gotta love hotswapping nvidia drivers every 10 minutes (especially when you keep up with the beta releases which I do).
|_maPex_|
03-10-2004, 08:59
I agree that ati drivers in general are better programmed, with far more efficient coding and often more advanced tech (until the current gen). However, nvidia are better implemented, theres a clear difference there. Gotta love hotswapping nvidia drivers every 10 minutes (especially when you keep up with the beta releases which I do).
I'm only in college and yes I have coded software (I worked at Lucent over the summer and coded **** for VoIP technology) but I haven't ever seen the coding for drivers. However, when I said nVIDIA drivers > ATI drivers I mean exactly what ACiDuS is saying. ATI would logically have better coded drivers because they don't release them very often, but nVIDIA's stuff works so much better with their cards than does ATI's. I never said to 'keep upgrading' every week for nVIDIA cards neither. I just said as a WHQL release came out you should keep upgrading as long as you have a newer card because in general they will help significantly (except in some rare cases with nVIDIA cards). With ATI cards the latest linux drivers, 3.11 or 3.10 forgot which, were half and half - 50% got better performance, the rest stook with 3.9s or 3.7s (or it coulda been 3.5). nVIDIA drivers = no complaints. Sure they may do a sloppy job with the code's structure and efficiency (i'm a big efficiency and cleanliness guy myself) but unless ATI drivers work as well as nVIDIA's I am not complaining. Even then, it's not your graphics card that does the most for your FPS - its your cpu and ram. You literally will not see a difference between a geforce4 mx (the ****ty ones) vs the best gf5 (ultra?) except a few fps (5 to 10) if you have both at the same settings. Add 500 Mhz to your cpu and you will see 30 fps gain at least.
The new 66.81 drivers have leaked, which give 6800 owners an extra 1k points in 3dmark, thats a theoretical 20% increase in power to the card from a single driver set. God I love my 6800.
Chroniktoke
03-10-2004, 17:51
God I love my 6800.
i wish i could say the same right now..........but im happy because mortal kombat deception hits stores tommorow and if you want to see all the new great things put into this game visit:
www.mkdeception.com and go to downloads and media to watch ed boons walk-through of the game
TehJumpingJawa
03-10-2004, 22:16
Even then, it's not your graphics card that does the most for your FPS - its your cpu and ram. You literally will not see a difference between a geforce4 mx (the ****ty ones) vs the best gf5 (ultra?) except a few fps (5 to 10) if you have both at the same settings. Add 500 Mhz to your cpu and you will see 30 fps gain at least.
There maybe very specific cases where that is true, but for the most part what your saying there is utter crap.
Few games currently available are processor limited, take for example Doom 3.
With a 3gig processor, 1/2gig ram, and geforce4 mx, in maximum detail, you will get approx. 5-10fps.
With a 3gig processor, 1/2gig ram, and a geforce 6800, in maximum detail, you will get approx. 80fps.
Infact, a 3gig processor for Doom3 in max. detail realy isn't unnecessary.
As long as you have a fast gfx card, you can get away with as little as a 2gig processor and still attain 60fps.
i reckon all the comp geeks should hook up and all the science geeks should hook up and we should have a huge rumble in the servers.....
ps ,, my geForce 2mx is holding ok....i dont know life at higher than 800 X 600 as it takes bout 10-15mins to load a map at that res (higher than 8X6 )over my 56K, compared to bout 4-5mins at 8x6.
but i'm thinking of getting a bundle, maybe looking at the x800 as that is the min u need (apparantly for half life2)
but i'm thinking of getting a bundle, maybe looking at the x800 as that is the min u need (apparantly for half life2)
Only morons and easily led people would buy an x800 right now.
x800 : Overclocked old tech, no 3.0 shaders. The x800 is "same ****, different box"
6800 : 3.0 shaders, brand new tech.
The 6800 models have beaten the x800 about 70% of the time in benchmarks without a mature driver set.
As I said, the most recent driver set (not yet officially released) increased 6800 power by 20% across the board.
The 6800 is a whole new animal, so while the x800 will pretty much stay exactly as it is, the sky is the limit for a 6800.
I'd rather have a 6800, than an x800, and I think any sensible person would agree in the current climate.
Jedistrike
04-10-2004, 02:15
ok its not just the card . u need 2 have a fairly good system 2 ... if u have anything with a 1.7 gig or more u should get the nvidia and if u have over 512 mb memory on ur pc .. u could even go one down and get the nvidia 5200 wich right now is very cheap.. thats what i have and my grafics are incredible .. please dont get the other one radions are cok suckers :eek:
TehJumpingJawa
04-10-2004, 02:35
The 5200 is very cheap for 1 simple reason - its very crap.
3Dmark2005,
with Athlon 1835mhz, 1gig ram & geforce FX 5200
scored : 281 3dmarks.
3Dmark2005,
with Athlon 1838mhz, 1gig ram, geforce 6800 GT
scored : 5145 3dmarks.
TigerZeta
04-10-2004, 11:47
No one here has talked about their hardware other than the card they bought... For example getting X800 Pro, or XT is just absurd if you don't have a HIGH END computer. Also telling the highest fps you get in a dark corner is just sad ;) Doesn't really count the actual lifelike perfomance... Oh and yes you can get higher fps than your screen's refresh rate, in theory. Try command com_maxrate <value> In my opinion getting that 9800 Pro was a good idea, but... My personal experience, well, is not the card's fault:
Well, I decided to buy a slightly overpowered card for my old system which was running:
PNY GeForce Ti 4200 64 mb
1 gb 266 mhz DDR Ram
Athlon XP 2000+
Gigabyte GA-7DXE motherboard. (Only supports up to 266 mhz DDR ram, Athlon 2400+, and AGP 4X)
before I got the Connect3d's ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128 mb. Now before you start flaming me about getting one to a AGP 4X motherboard, it really shouldn't affect to games I play unless I use some 4AA, and other high settings. Well, larger amount of card's memory helped a lot in some games... And fps was a bit better. Now. What's the benefit when in these games you crash every..
Battlefield 1942: 15 - 45 minutes
Counter Strike: Maximum 3 minutes before crash
Jedi Academy: rarely
The new Tribes demo: every 20 minutes
Star Wars Galaxies: Every 20 minutes... Have been inactive for 2 months and that starts to get you annoyed...
Well, I figured it was because of my 300 w PSU, so I got a nice Fortron 400 w... and a new case fan. No effect. I have tried several drivers and everything. My CPU temperatures ARE high (63 max while playing) ... But it's not critical. The temperatures haven't changed since my old card.
I have also tried several other drivers on other devices... Motherboard, BIOS, etc. I have correctly uninstalled and installed everything but NOTHING seems to do it. It could be that my motherboard just can't handle it for some reason... or CPU has been damaged because high temperatures before... Go and figure out, if the support on Connect3d won't solve this... I'll go back to my old card. And if that won't work... New computer somewhere next year? Bah. I'll toss this thing out of the window... I'm kind of hoping they just tell me it's unfunctional one and they'll replace it free of charge... Somehow I'm not expecting it. If the support won't help I'll go for one last reformat, new drivers, and nothing "extra" installed. If it won't work, I'll start to see if anyone can figure it out on some forums...
If you don't happen to know why ;)
I think the majority of crashes on any system are down to bad installs, corruption and very rarely, poor driver support.
If you use nfts, uninstall your drivers before you install new ones and stay current, you should rarely crash in any game. At the same time one thing that also affects stability hugely is the quality of your ram, a hiccup in this can cause you no end of problems, which is why I always go for corsair.
No one here has talked about their hardware other than the card they bought...
Video-card: Sapphire ATI Radeon 9800 pro (128Mb)(+vga ram heatsinks)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-7VAXP (onboard sound)
Hard-drive: Maxtor 80 GB (with Cooldrive-case)
CPU: Athlon 2600+
Ram: 1024Mb (333mhz)
CD-Rom: Philips 48X
DVD-R: NEC dvd rw nd-2500a (read 12X/40X - write 8X/32X)
CRT Monitor: Philips 109E5 (19 inch)
Keyboard: Microsoft natural multimedia
Mouse: 6 yrs old Logitech :p
Also telling the highest fps you get in a dark corner is just sad
hmm not really , with the fx5200 it was only 100fps maximum (all settings on low)
ill dig up this old thread because im too lazy to make a new one
i have a NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4800 SE and i have no idea what that means or anything about this kinda stuff so is this a really bad card or average or what?
well the 4800 SE is a 4400 with 8x AGP
so here i got some images for reference
as u can see its quite okay for q3 (so for JKA standards its a pretty card)
but for newer games to come its below the standard
hope this helps
[KP] Tokakeke
04-11-2004, 18:23
My last suggestion:
don't "take" anything. you'll get charged with theft.
(read the title!)
Jedistrike
12-11-2004, 23:44
The 5200 is very cheap for 1 simple reason - its very crap.
3Dmark2005,
with Athlon 1835mhz, 1gig ram & geforce FX 5200
scored : 281 3dmarks.
3Dmark2005,
with Athlon 1838mhz, 1gig ram, geforce 6800 GT
scored : 5145 3dmarks.
i will admit that the 6800 far exedes the 5200 .. but if u have good hardware .. it is a good bargain .. and a card that still outpowers most in its price range
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